Recommend an electric fuel pump
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 246
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From: middletown, de
Recommend an electric fuel pump
I had an erratic fuel pressure issue in my 70. See here: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-pressure.html
The previous owner installed a bronze tipped fuel pump rod which according to the builder (blueprint) is not good and may have eaten some of the cam lobe so..... electric fuel pump is cheaper than a cam swap. Does anyone have a good recommendation? I'm leaning toward this guy: . I Did some research here and elsewhere and there seems to be a bunch of issues with the Holley red/blue pumps and others. The Carter seems to be the best of the bunch. Any thoughts?
The previous owner installed a bronze tipped fuel pump rod which according to the builder (blueprint) is not good and may have eaten some of the cam lobe so..... electric fuel pump is cheaper than a cam swap. Does anyone have a good recommendation? I'm leaning toward this guy: . I Did some research here and elsewhere and there seems to be a bunch of issues with the Holley red/blue pumps and others. The Carter seems to be the best of the bunch. Any thoughts?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,123
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From: Gladstone MO
C3 of Year Finalist (appearance mods) 2019
Before I spent the time and money on an electric pump, I'd change the pushrod. Drop it out and see if it's worn. If not, try another pump. If one of the check valves internally to the pump is leaking it could cause the pressure to be everywhere.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: middletown, de
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,123
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From: Gladstone MO
C3 of Year Finalist (appearance mods) 2019
IS it just the gauge bouncing around or are you actually having performance problems? I ask because I'm running a 496 on a stock pump. Desktop Dyno programs sets it about 650 horsepower and I have zero fuel delivery problems. I've never checked the fuel pressure.
Thread Starter
Instructor
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From: middletown, de
I also ran the fuel line into a bucket to make sure it wasn't the gauge and it would pump, stop, pump, stop.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,339
Likes: 546
From: Central Texas
I have been disappointed with Holley Blue and Black pumps due to the noise of the pumps.
I switched to an Aeromotive Electric pump with an Aeromotive regulator.
This one...
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-11203
Craig
I switched to an Aeromotive Electric pump with an Aeromotive regulator.
This one...
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-11203
Craig
Safety Car
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From: North Georgia, USA
I've had good results with Carter fuel pumps in the past. That kit, with the mounting flange and the hardware is a handy kit that makes installation easier.
Now for the harder part. Install a fuel pump relay to power the thing, and before you drive it anywhere, make damn sure that when the engine stops turning, the fuel pump stops running. The easiest way to accomplish that is to put 12v power to the coil of the relay and ground it through an oil pressure switch (like for an "idiot light"). Do not skip the relay. I know a guy who spent a year in the hospital and nearly died when he got in an accident that was serious enough to break a fuel line from the electric pump to the engine and the pump emptied his 20 gallon fuel tank on his headers. You don't want to do that to yourself (or your family and friends).
Since you're probably carbureted, you don't need to worry (much) about priming the pump. There should be enough fuel in the bowls of the carb to get the thing running and get oil pressure before it "runs out of gas."
Now for the harder part. Install a fuel pump relay to power the thing, and before you drive it anywhere, make damn sure that when the engine stops turning, the fuel pump stops running. The easiest way to accomplish that is to put 12v power to the coil of the relay and ground it through an oil pressure switch (like for an "idiot light"). Do not skip the relay. I know a guy who spent a year in the hospital and nearly died when he got in an accident that was serious enough to break a fuel line from the electric pump to the engine and the pump emptied his 20 gallon fuel tank on his headers. You don't want to do that to yourself (or your family and friends).
Since you're probably carbureted, you don't need to worry (much) about priming the pump. There should be enough fuel in the bowls of the carb to get the thing running and get oil pressure before it "runs out of gas."
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,339
Likes: 546
From: Central Texas
I've had good results with Carter fuel pumps in the past. That kit, with the mounting flange and the hardware is a handy kit that makes installation easier.
Now for the harder part. Install a fuel pump relay to power the thing, and before you drive it anywhere, make damn sure that when the engine stops turning, the fuel pump stops running. The easiest way to accomplish that is to put 12v power to the coil of the relay and ground it through an oil pressure switch (like for an "idiot light"). Do not skip the relay. I know a guy who spent a year in the hospital and nearly died when he got in an accident that was serious enough to break a fuel line from the electric pump to the engine and the pump emptied his 20 gallon fuel tank on his headers. You don't want to do that to yourself (or your family and friends).
Since you're probably carbureted, you don't need to worry (much) about priming the pump. There should be enough fuel in the bowls of the carb to get the thing running and get oil pressure before it "runs out of gas."
Now for the harder part. Install a fuel pump relay to power the thing, and before you drive it anywhere, make damn sure that when the engine stops turning, the fuel pump stops running. The easiest way to accomplish that is to put 12v power to the coil of the relay and ground it through an oil pressure switch (like for an "idiot light"). Do not skip the relay. I know a guy who spent a year in the hospital and nearly died when he got in an accident that was serious enough to break a fuel line from the electric pump to the engine and the pump emptied his 20 gallon fuel tank on his headers. You don't want to do that to yourself (or your family and friends).
Since you're probably carbureted, you don't need to worry (much) about priming the pump. There should be enough fuel in the bowls of the carb to get the thing running and get oil pressure before it "runs out of gas."
Use one of these or a Holley Hobbs switch which turns off the pump in an event of a loss in oil pressure.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/prf-80160/overview/
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Going back to your original thread did you ever measure the distance the push rod moves?
Place the engine on number 1 TDC, take a measurement from the end of the push rod to any reference point. This should be the low point on the camshaft lobe.
Turn the engine one complete revolution and take a second measurement to the same reference point. This should be the high point on the camshaft lobe.
Place the engine on number 1 TDC, take a measurement from the end of the push rod to any reference point. This should be the low point on the camshaft lobe.
Turn the engine one complete revolution and take a second measurement to the same reference point. This should be the high point on the camshaft lobe.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 246
Likes: 12
From: middletown, de
I've had good results with Carter fuel pumps in the past. That kit, with the mounting flange and the hardware is a handy kit that makes installation easier.
Now for the harder part. Install a fuel pump relay to power the thing, and before you drive it anywhere, make damn sure that when the engine stops turning, the fuel pump stops running. The easiest way to accomplish that is to put 12v power to the coil of the relay and ground it through an oil pressure switch (like for an "idiot light"). Do not skip the relay. I know a guy who spent a year in the hospital and nearly died when he got in an accident that was serious enough to break a fuel line from the electric pump to the engine and the pump emptied his 20 gallon fuel tank on his headers. You don't want to do that to yourself (or your family and friends).
Since you're probably carbureted, you don't need to worry (much) about priming the pump. There should be enough fuel in the bowls of the carb to get the thing running and get oil pressure before it "runs out of gas."
Now for the harder part. Install a fuel pump relay to power the thing, and before you drive it anywhere, make damn sure that when the engine stops turning, the fuel pump stops running. The easiest way to accomplish that is to put 12v power to the coil of the relay and ground it through an oil pressure switch (like for an "idiot light"). Do not skip the relay. I know a guy who spent a year in the hospital and nearly died when he got in an accident that was serious enough to break a fuel line from the electric pump to the engine and the pump emptied his 20 gallon fuel tank on his headers. You don't want to do that to yourself (or your family and friends).
Since you're probably carbureted, you don't need to worry (much) about priming the pump. There should be enough fuel in the bowls of the carb to get the thing running and get oil pressure before it "runs out of gas."
Seem's to have all the wiring that's needed I think except maybe the kill switch when the engine stops running. I know very little about automotive wiring so i want this to be as easy as humanly possible.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 246
Likes: 12
From: middletown, de
Going back to your original thread did you ever measure the distance the push rod moves?
Place the engine on number 1 TDC, take a measurement from the end of the push rod to any reference point. This should be the low point on the camshaft lobe.
Turn the engine one complete revolution and take a second measurement to the same reference point. This should be the high point on the camshaft lobe.
Place the engine on number 1 TDC, take a measurement from the end of the push rod to any reference point. This should be the low point on the camshaft lobe.
Turn the engine one complete revolution and take a second measurement to the same reference point. This should be the high point on the camshaft lobe.
I've come to this conclusion on the advice of the builder (blueprint) and the fact that i've check everything several times and i'm pretty much out of options at this point. Its not the tank, its not the lines, its not the pump, its not the rod and it ran the week before. It would stumble occasionally which i attributed to the carb mostly because well.... carbs. Now it seems like that was the beginning of the end of the lobe. I also changed the oil and there was a bit of material on the plug (magnetic) which may have been the remains of the lobe.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,364
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From: los altos hills california
I had an erratic fuel pressure issue in my 70. See here: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-pressure.html
The previous owner installed a bronze tipped fuel pump rod which according to the builder (blueprint) is not good and may have eaten some of the cam lobe so..... electric fuel pump is cheaper than a cam swap.
The previous owner installed a bronze tipped fuel pump rod which according to the builder (blueprint) is not good and may have eaten some of the cam lobe so..... electric fuel pump is cheaper than a cam swap.
I have been both places, swapping out the cam on my old motor and installing an electric pump on the new motor. There are a lot of issues with and electric pump that need to be addressed. You can do it cheap and noisy or do it right.
You owe it to yourself to verify the situation as it seems you've eliminated most of the other possibilities. Based on what I know and my experience, I would swap out the cam. If you are looking for a performance gain as well, consider this an opportunity.
Last edited by ignatz; Jul 11, 2019 at 11:58 AM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: middletown, de
That's not right, the bronze is softer than the cam and will wear first. It sounds like your cam lobe is shot but you really should check the pushrod throw as MelWFF suggests.
I have been both places, swapping out the cam on my old motor and installing an electric pump on the new motor. There are a lot of issues with and electric pump that need to be addressed. You can do it cheap and noisy or do it right.
You owe it to yourself to verify the situation as it seems you've eliminated most of the other possibilities. Based on what I know and my experience, I would swap out the cam. If you are looking for a performance gain as well, consider this an opportunity.
I have been both places, swapping out the cam on my old motor and installing an electric pump on the new motor. There are a lot of issues with and electric pump that need to be addressed. You can do it cheap and noisy or do it right.
You owe it to yourself to verify the situation as it seems you've eliminated most of the other possibilities. Based on what I know and my experience, I would swap out the cam. If you are looking for a performance gain as well, consider this an opportunity.
I thought the bronze was softer too so maybe the tech i spoke w/ misspoke. I REALLY don't want to do a cam swap to be perfectly honest. I don't need more performance and i'd rather not go into that much labor. My thought process here is to spend $200 on the electric pump and run that. If the cam flattens itself in 10k-15k i'll replace it then or maybe go LS, we'll see.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 529
Likes: 113
From: Texas
I had an erratic fuel pressure issue in my 70. See here: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-pressure.html
The previous owner installed a bronze tipped fuel pump rod which according to the builder (blueprint) is not good and may have eaten some of the cam lobe so..... electric fuel pump is cheaper than a cam swap. Does anyone have a good recommendation? I'm leaning toward this guy: https://www.amazon.com/Carter-P4070-.../dp/B000CIQ5DG. I Did some research here and elsewhere and there seems to be a bunch of issues with the Holley red/blue pumps and others. The Carter seems to be the best of the bunch. Any thoughts?
The previous owner installed a bronze tipped fuel pump rod which according to the builder (blueprint) is not good and may have eaten some of the cam lobe so..... electric fuel pump is cheaper than a cam swap. Does anyone have a good recommendation? I'm leaning toward this guy: https://www.amazon.com/Carter-P4070-.../dp/B000CIQ5DG. I Did some research here and elsewhere and there seems to be a bunch of issues with the Holley red/blue pumps and others. The Carter seems to be the best of the bunch. Any thoughts?
http://www.revolutionelectronics.com/Fuel_Pump.html
Last edited by Gunfighter13; Jul 11, 2019 at 12:23 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 246
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From: middletown, de
I would recommend a fuel pressure regulator and a fuel pump controller. This is a good controller.
http://www.revolutionelectronics.com/Fuel_Pump.html
http://www.revolutionelectronics.com/Fuel_Pump.html
This looks pretty neat. Would i just need the pump and no additional wiring other than this? Looks inclusive from my limited knowledge.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 529
Likes: 113
From: Texas
I put a relay to power the pump and used the controller to activate the relay. I just checked his Ebay store and Amazon and they are not showing any in stock. I sent an email to him to see if and when he will have more. Send him an email to let him know you are interested in the controller.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,240
Likes: 1,013
From: Watkinsville, GA and Glen Cove, NY
You definitely want to run any high amp accessory off of a relay. Aeromotive is a great pump, but must be used with a return line. If you are going to run it dead headed without a return, you will need the appropriate regulator. I know there are some you can run without a regulator, but I wouldn’t do it. I am using that revolution controller also. I like it better than the oil pressure based ones. The inertia ones work pretty well too. There is some work involved in doing this right. I would be inclined to really find out what is going on with yours first, before I committed to change to electric.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2017
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From: North Georgia, USA
I think this may be the way to go: https://www.jegs.com/i/Carter/180/P4070K/10002/-1
Seem's to have all the wiring that's needed I think except maybe the kill switch when the engine stops running. I know very little about automotive wiring so i want this to be as easy as humanly possible.
Seem's to have all the wiring that's needed I think except maybe the kill switch when the engine stops running. I know very little about automotive wiring so i want this to be as easy as humanly possible.
As shown in the directions, that's a dangerous setup that could feed a fire in an accident. You want to wire it where the pump stops running when the engine stops turning.
The only change I'd make is that I'd run the gray wire from the relay to the oil pressure warning switch. Use AC-Delco G1807 for the switch. Your engine might already have that switch installed for the oil pressure warning light. If it does, just splice the gray wire from the fuel pump relay to the wire that already runs to that switch. That switch will then turn on the warning light and turn off the fuel pump when the oil pressure is below 2psi. It will take 6psi of oil pressure to turn that switch on (which should start the pump soon after you start cranking the starter).
You can use a different switch for the oil pressure switch, but you need one that closes (grounds, turns "on") when the pressure exceeds a reasonable threshhold and opens (ungrounds, turns "off") when there is no oil pressure.
Last edited by C6_Racer_X; Jul 11, 2019 at 01:46 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,666
Likes: 289
From: Spring Park MN
The Mallory fuels pumps are quiet and reliable. You will need a regulator and I would advise a safety shutoff such as an inertia switch or an oil pressure safety switch. Using a relay is also advised.
Mike
Mike
Last edited by v2racing; Jul 12, 2019 at 02:42 PM.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 529
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From: Texas
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-Pump-E...ss!76424!US!-1
He responded and pointed me to some listing on EBAY.
He responded and pointed me to some listing on EBAY.