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I took out my 1978 today, basic M22 4 speed transmission, and it ran great, shifted smoothly. I backed it into my driveway and went to shift back to 1st and it will not go into any forward gear.
I can put it into reverse and then car backs up. I can move the shifter to neutral, let out the clutch, and the car does not move and I can push the car when in the neutral position.
Whether the car is on or off, I cannot get into 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th. I'm glad this happened at home but that does not help much with the frustration level.
I don't think 78's have a shifter interlock. The finger lock on the steering column works and must be depressed to remove the key.
I'm guessing maybe a linkage issue?
The clutch was just replaced and the shifter rebuilt with a rebuild kit. It's been fine for the first 150 miles and then this. The shop that did the work is about 150 miles away which will make returning it to them a challenge. I'll will probably look for a local mechanic but it is harder to find people familiar with them. I'd like to have some idea(s) of what it might be.
There isn't much room between the linkages, not that I would try adjusting them myself, and the exhaust pipe so that must be a bear to work on.
If you have the original trans it would not be an M22, that was a Muncie HD close ratio trans that was rare. AKA the rock crusher. Now if it was swapped out then someone could have installed an M22. You might find you have a ST-10 or even Saginaw 4 speed. Regardless, sounds like a shifter interlock issue. If you can get it up in the air you should be able to find it in short order.
My mistake on the M22. It is not the rock crusher. I must have misunderstood the mechanic at the time. As far as I know it is the original 4 speed, car was originally an L48. It is a Pace Car special edition.
this problem is common especially since someone recently work on it. My bet is they did not fully tighten the bolts attaching the shift levers to the shift lever shafts on the side of the transmission case. You need to jack up the car so that you have access to the drivers side of the transmission case. Place the shifter in neutral. The forward two levers for 1/2 gears and 3/4 gears should be straight up. If not the bolts loosened. Loosen them more and realign the levers so they fit properly on the shafts then tighten the bolts. The reverse lever should be pointing towards the front of the car when in neutral, check that bolt also.
Thanks Melwff. Those directions were what I needed, how the levers should look when in neutral. I think reverse was okay but the front two were slightly off vertical, leaning backwards, and I guess just enough to prevent the shifter from moving back to where it needed to. One of the bolts was looser than I would have expected and the other was fairly snug. I tightened them as much as I could from the angle I was at.
The car is shifting fine now and when I shift out of reverse to neutral, I can hear the t-handle lockout pinging back into place which I did not even notice that I was not hearing before (of course, with the engine off otherwise I would never hear it anyway).
I am going to try attaching a couple of pictures. These are the "befores". They may not be the best due to the crowded area . The front levers might appear vertical but that is the angle of the shot, they were slightly off.
Thanks Melwff. Those directions were what I needed, how the levers should look when in neutral. I think reverse was okay but the front two were slightly off vertical, leaning backwards, and I guess just enough to prevent the shifter from moving back to where it needed to. One of the bolts was looser than I would have expected and the other was fairly snug. I tightened them as much as I could from the angle I was at.
The car is shifting fine now and when I shift out of reverse to neutral, I can hear the t-handle lockout pinging back into place which I did not even notice that I was not hearing before (of course, with the engine off otherwise I would never hear it anyway).
I am going to try attaching a couple of pictures. These are the "befores". They may not be the best due to the crowded area . The front levers might appear vertical but that is the angle of the shot, they were slightly off.
I have pics of how the shifter linkages and rods should look like and what position they should be in. I'll post tomorrow as it's in my work PC.
Here are the pics of how it all works. You may have to adjust the shifter as well. There is a detent in the center for the 1-2 and 3-4 tabs for neutral. The levers should be vertical or very close to it. You can feel the detent in the center. Pushing the arm forward for 1-2, gives you 1, pulling it back gives you 2, centering puts that lever in neutral.
To do it right and take the guess work out of it you need to align your shifter with this tool then adjust your rods to the transmission. Works every time. The only problem is getting the tool into the slot in the shifter with the shifter in the car.
I would recommend using some locktite red on the fasteners.
I wouldn't use red on any thing that you may have a hard time using Heat or an Air Impact Wrench on when it's time to it take apart.
I have broken a fastener or two that were 1/4"(found red residue) and I have had to drill out Pulley Set Screws (non-automotive equipment) where someone used red (fun, not).
Blue is adequate for most things on a Car, and I'd not use red on anything smaller than 5/16 diameter unless it's never to be disassembled.
Lock Washers, blue loctite or anti-sieze, every threaded fastener should have one of these at a minimum. Red or green loctite are application specific imo.
I wouldn't use red on any thing that you may have a hard time using Heat or an Air Impact Wrench on when it's time to it take apart.
I have broken a fastener or two that were 1/4"(found red residue) and I have had to drill out Pulley Set Screws (non-automotive equipment) where someone used red (fun, not).
Blue is adequate for most things on a Car, and I'd not use red on anything smaller than 5/16 diameter unless it's never to be disassembled.
Lock Washers, blue loctite or anti-sieze, every threaded fastener should have one of these at a minimum. Red or green loctite are application specific imo.
Your mileage may vary.
Yes, I agree that red isn't good for smaller fasteners, but since it was recently overhauled, the shift shaft bolts should be a semi-permanant install. And they are 5/16-18 thread.
Harley Davidson uses a green/yellow looking stuff on the fuel tank top plate that s*cks b@lls when trying to remove the 1/4" fasteners
And, of course, ymmv. Lol
Oops, thought there had been trans work when after I re-read op, I remembered it was a clutch. Either way, when I put my m20 back together, I used red on the shift shaft bolts. Ain't skeered. Haha
Last edited by jeffwebley; Jul 25, 2019 at 11:43 PM.
Reason: Mistook clutch replace for trans work
My mistake on the M22. It is not the rock crusher. I must have misunderstood the mechanic at the time. As far as I know it is the original 4 speed, car was originally an L48. It is a Pace Car special edition.
L48s were equipped with a Muncie/Saginaw four-speed with a cast iron case. Your photo shows an aluminum case so it must have been changed out to a Borg Warner T-10...but the numbers stamped onto the case would identify the four-speed type.
This is good stuff. I took the liberty of combing the photos, schematics and instructions into a single document using PowerPoint. If I need to do this, I find it more helpful than browsing through posts and connecting photos and descriptions.
Hope this helps!
L48s were equipped with a Muncie/Saginaw four-speed with a cast iron case. Your photo shows an aluminum case so it must have been changed out to a Borg Warner T-10...but the numbers stamped onto the case would identify the four-speed type.
My 1974 L48 came with the Borg Warner aluminum T-10, instead of the Muncie specified for that year. The reason was a late Summer union strike at GM and production of the '74's was interrupted. Production restarted in mid September, but they were already rolling the 1975 models down the line and those came with the Borg Warner T-10. The remaining 1974's had that transmission installed. The numbers match on the case on my '74.
My 1974 L48 came with the Borg Warner aluminum T-10, instead of the Muncie specified for that year. The reason was a late Summer union strike at GM and production of the '74's was interrupted. Production restarted in mid September, but they were already rolling the 1975 models down the line and those came with the Borg Warner T-10. The remaining 1974's had that transmission installed. The numbers match on the case on my '74.
My post was in response to the cookie man and 1978 model year
This is good stuff. I took the liberty of combing the photos, schematics and instructions into a single document using PowerPoint. If I need to do this, I find it more helpful than browsing through posts and connecting photos and descriptions.
Hope this helps!
OP, in post #5, the 2nd picture, above the wires there are two stamps vertical. One tells you the date of the trans (starts with W then month, day, year & shift) and the other (on top) will be a partial vin that the trans belongs to. Spay some cleaner up there while you are underneath the car already.
My post was in response to the cookie man and 1978 model year
Just saying, even from the factory or as a dealer warranty replacement, what you think you have, no matter what the specs say, isn't always what you have. The 1974 Model Year says I should've got a Muncie M-21, but I got a numbers matching Borg Warner Super T-10 instead.
Just saying, even from the factory or as a dealer warranty replacement, what you think you have, no matter what the specs say, isn't always what you have. The 1974 Model Year says I should've got a Muncie M-21, but I got a numbers matching Borg Warner Super T-10 instead.
Got it! I missed your point in that previous post but see it now. It is also significant and consistent with the newly published 3rd edition of the NCRS technical information and judging guide that states B/Ws were installed in late 1974 production.
What's your VIN number and trim tag date code?
I served on the NCRS revision team and we learned that the best evidence for production changes is what's on the car! The AIMs were constantly under revision and therefore only a slice in time, not always capturing part number changes. Marketing materials, once published, rarely changed until the next model year.
Got it! I missed your point in that previous post but see it now. It is also significant and consistent with the newly published 3rd edition of the NCRS technical information and judging guide that states B/Ws were installed in late 1974 production.
What's your VIN number and trim tag date code?
I served on the NCRS revision team and we learned that the best evidence for production changes is what's on the car! The AIMs were constantly under revision and therefore only a slice in time, not always capturing part number changes. Marketing materials, once published, rarely changed until the next model year.
I think the born on date was sometime in late September, if memory serves me correctly.
1978 4 Speed No Forward Gears
