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In my youth a million years ago i would run my 302 chevy to 8 grand with points and i was certainly not alone thats all there was. So i did not know any better back then that delco points used in from the factory were a little stiffer. So i go to the auto parts store just get some points, now i end up with misfire from bouncing ponts. So i take a second set of points cut a spring out of it put it behind the points problem fixed , the points block did not seem to really wear any faster that it was a problem, also did not know that accell had stiffer points i could have just installed them to fix it. Well say an old honda 350 twin it turns 10,000 rpm in stock form and far higher in rpm on the race bikes of the time period. It had one set of points for each cylinder and two seperate coils the whole system firing seperate from each other. So each coil obviously not having to work very hard. So the 8 cylinder with only one coil its working itself to death. Its not really the breaker points the bigger problem its the weak 20,000 volt coil. So if you hook in a cd to crutch the coil problem no reason you cant do high revs with it.
Last edited by Little Mouse; Aug 11, 2019 at 10:16 PM.
From: I tend to be leery of any guy who doesn't own a chainsaw or a handgun.
Originally Posted by Little Mouse
In my youth a million years ago i would run my 302 chevy to 8 grand with points and i was certainly not alone thats all there was. So i did not know any better back then that delco points used in from the factory were a little stiffer. So i go to the auto parts store just get some points, now i end up with misfire from bouncing ponts. So i take a second set of points cut a spring out of it put it behind the points problem fixed , the points block did not seem to really wear any faster that it was a problem, also did not know that accell had stiffer points i could have just installed them to fix it. Well say an old honda 350 twin it turns 10,000 rpm in stock form and far higher in rpm on the race bikes of the time period. It had one set of points for each cylinder and two seperate coils the whole system firing seperate from each other. So each coil obviously not having to work very hard. So the 8 cylinder with only one coil its working itself to death. Its not really the breaker points the bigger problem its the weak 20,000 volt coil. So if you hook in a cd to crutch the coil problem no reason you cant do high revs with it.
Complete nonsense. The stock coils aren't weak. Additionally, at higher engine speed (7-10 thousand RPM) the volumetric efficiency and cylinder pressures are so damn low that it doesn't take that much voltage to jump the plug gap anyway. The biggest shortcoming in the old ignition systems was due to the points. When the singular thing that controls the coil charging time/dwell is doing nothing but operating as vehicle ballast weight for 33% of each cylinder time (15*/45*), then that's a screaming indicator of an inefficient system. With a swapout of the inefficient points, and the installation of an electronic switch with dynamic dwell control, the system can run the dwell up to 40-42 degrees at high RPMs, allowing the coil to charge up sufficiently to deliver a decent energy quantity to the plugs.
There's an ignition sticky above that can explain all this to you.
I ran a set of points on my 302 for years and never had an issue. The way I was using them they were not really stressed much because they were only carrying switch trigger curent for a CD box. They lasted for years that way and never need replacement. Recently went to a modified magnetic trigger from a Chrysler and would never want to go back. The car starts better and runs great. GM distributor and coil.
From: I tend to be leery of any guy who doesn't own a chainsaw or a handgun.
Originally Posted by stingr69
I ran a set of points on my 302 for years and never had an issue. The way I was using them they were not really stressed much because they were only carrying switch trigger curent for a CD box. They lasted for years that way and never need replacement. Recently went to a modified magnetic trigger from a Chrysler and would never want to go back. The car starts better and runs great. GM distributor and coil.
I'm running a similar setup. My '69 has a Hays conversion kit (with parts that look like they're straight out of the Chrysler parts bin) that I put in the stock distributor a hundred years ago, and as a fun project a few years back I modified a spare points distributor to accept the Chrysler reluctor wheel and pickup/VR sensor. I just hook that up to an old HEI module and the stock can coil.
I'd be interested in details of your setup if you care to share any.
Hays Stinger distributor conversion kit with a Crane HI-6 CD box and a stock GM coil. Has built in adjustable rev limiter you set with a screwdriver. 20 degrees in the mechanism all done at 2600 RPM, 16 initial plus 16 in the B28 vacuum can gets me to 52 degrees all in. Idle is around 950 RPM.
Hays Stinger conversion. Stock springs were changed for a faster rate set before it went in.
Last edited by stingr69; Aug 13, 2019 at 09:32 AM.
I ran a set of points on my 302 for years and never had an issue. The way I was using them they were not really stressed much because they were only carrying switch trigger curent for a CD box. They lasted for years that way and never need replacement. Recently went to a modified magnetic trigger from a Chrysler and would never want to go back. The car starts better and runs great. GM distributor and coil.
Good point a cd backup box. Long time ago a guy had a cd put into his cd box it had a switch on it to just turn it off he would turn it off the engine would run a little rougher at idle turn the switch back on the idle would smooth out. Today with one coil per cylinder putting out huge volts. Coils should last forever firing only 1 cylinder.
Last edited by Little Mouse; Aug 13, 2019 at 12:30 AM.
Not sure they last forever I put two sets on a 2011 Ford edge sport in a hundred thousand miles.
I have nothing against points capacitive discharge ignition made them last virtually forever basically made it equivalent to an electronic ignition.the exception being the wear on the rubbing block would cause you to have to adjust the points periodically
IIRC a discussion about a long obsolete mallory dist with 4 lobes and twin points and a special cap for use with twin coils on a Chevy V8.
Here's how cup etc USED to do it JUST BEFORE it's now gone to EFI & ECM.
Driver would SELECT (switch) from two Almost wholly separate ignition systems.
One dist has two pickups (P1 & P2) ... triggers Either of Two cd boxes(B1 & B2)... which triggers One of the Two coils (C1 & C2) dedicated to respective box ...
... hi-tension Out from BOTH Coils is split (w/ MSD pn 8210) BEFORE it reaches dist cap ... single Hi-tension Out from 8210 splitter-selector ...
... goes to cap's Hi-tension In center terminal & distributed to plugs.
Not sure they last forever I put two sets on a 2011 Ford edge sport in a hundred thousand miles.
I have nothing against points capacitive discharge ignition made them last virtually forever basically made it equivalent to an electronic ignition.the exception being the wear on the rubbing block would cause you to have to adjust the points periodically
In the original inductive application the contact surfaces get trashed from the high current draw and spark that pits the contact surface . The Crane box trigger wire only has a low current going through the contacts so they never get trashed. As for the rubbing block, I suppose with a lot of miles they could just wear out but keep in mind you do not need to adjust for dwell when they are used this way. No condenser either. Any wear on the rubbing block will theoretically result in a tiny change in timing but dwell setting is irrelevant used in this way. They just need to open and close. It was a simple, neat setup.
I have worked on two cars with points in 10 years......a 69' Cutlass 350 Convertible, and a 1965 Wildcat 401 nailhead. Both cars required my thorough restore of the distributors and carbs but after they were installed and set, it is amazing how well they run......liquid smooth both of them and neither set up to run over 5000rpm. Both of the owners of these cars went batshit crazy when I returned the cars to them......it seems no one here (Although they swear they know how, all of "them") knows how to correctly time, set dwell and idle mixture. Amazing. The points deal is a super simple Kettering dump voltage deal with a manual trigger. One thing I can say about points is you can fix em on the road...cheap, and easy. The bad part is trying to run rpm with single points and the wear.......dual points wear a lot longer as they "share" the opening and closing (although you get them close...one is always opening sooner and as result the other closes later). Dual points are not "better" spark....they just run more stable upstairs.
When i started this thread was not trying to convince anyone to throw away there magnectic switch. Points are just a mechanical switch. If my memory is correct when chevy came out with the hei in 74 they doubled the coil voltage to 40,000 and got rid of the coil wire, all positive moves.
I have worked on two cars with points in 10 years......a 69' Cutlass 350 Convertible, and a 1965 Wildcat 401 nailhead. Both cars required my thorough restore of the distributors and carbs but after they were installed and set, it is amazing how well they run......liquid smooth both of them and neither set up to run over 5000rpm. Both of the owners of these cars went batshit crazy when I returned the cars to them......it seems no one here (Although they swear they know how, all of "them") knows how to correctly time, set dwell and idle mixture. Amazing. The points deal is a super simple Kettering dump voltage deal with a manual trigger. One thing I can say about points is you can fix em on the road...cheap, and easy. The bad part is trying to run rpm with single points and the wear.......dual points wear a lot longer as they "share" the opening and closing (although you get them close...one is always opening sooner and as result the other closes later). Dual points are not "better" spark....they just run more stable upstairs.
Jebby
the 8 lobe dual points allowed a bit more dwell time. The 4 lobe dual point mallory i put in my 66 vette did not do that. Each set in it was only firing 4 cylinders. The new in 75 When i put it in Yl had a female style cap. The 4 lobe they made before it the YC model's were called a double life had a two piece cap made it look a lot like a mag. You can still buy the parts for the double life. But you cant buy the cap. So anyone with a good used one or new old stock gets a premium price for them.
Last edited by Little Mouse; Aug 13, 2019 at 04:26 PM.
Points under estimated
