Hi All,

I feel like I am asking so many T5 questions but please bear with me; I am overseas and small mistakes can get expensive quick. (This V6 T5 is a good example.)

I have decided to throw the 1994 Firebird V6 WC T5 into my 1969 Corvette. It looks fresh and unmolested (the T5, not my Corvette).

The first gear is silly deep at 3.75. But, I would rather that be limited to a 1:1 4th gear. My 200-4R spoiled me.

The bolt pattern is that of a Ford. So my plan is to install this one, and when I find a nice 3.35 or 2.95 1st gear Ford, it should be a fairly easy swap.

Like the Ford's, the input shaft is a tick longer; so, theoretically, I will not need an extended pilot bushing and that will match up well with the trans to bellhousing adapter plate. The stock clutch linkage will work. The speedo is easy enough. Offsetting the shifter lever should be relatively straight forward too. The yoke is GM and my corvette slots just fine. Nothing crazy here.

Now for my three questions in no particular order...

The rear mount bracket.
On my workbench, I measured the rear mount pad of the T5 when it is level. The pad is off horizontal by 18 degrees. I have seen members in other threads that fabricated a canted bracket for the rear... that seems pretty easy as well.
However... and I THINK, if I am reading correctly, that some members are saying the T5 will not immediately fit and the corvette cross member needs to be made removable to get the T5 in ?!?!? Is that correct ?

The infamous 3.75 First, really ?
I know this 1st is going to be somewhat annoying... but V6 Firebirds and Camaros were fitted with 3.75 1st gear. Granted they were only 150-200 ponies (but so is my turd of a V8) but their final out through tire size and rear gearing would be roughly equivalent to what I'd have. This is a subjective question but... how could it be so terribly annoying (rather than less desirable) considering it was in a mild performance car ?

Future Ford swap
I have established that the cost of converting this V6 T5 to a 2.95 or a 3.35 would be prohibitive. The best course seems to wait for a good Ford V8 T5 to come along and swap it in. I presume that would be a cakewalk. Just need to worry about the spline count on the clutch disc and the output yoke need to be figured, correct ?

MTIADC3

 

After extensive reading, it seems like the job can be done with a lot of twisting turning and lifting and colorful metaphors in exchange for not modifying the crossmember to be removable.

On the other hand, some square steel tubing looks like an easy thing to do.








Grateful to the fellow who came up with this solution

 

Here's the way I see it.
1. That 3.75 1st gear was not designed for V8 level torque and will likely not last long unless you baby it.

2. I have a 4.15 1st gear in my daily driver and it's very annoying. It's very "rev-happy". With my 3.42 rear I have 13.9 overall in first. If I drive it "nice" it only reaches 13 mph in first and I am already at 2500 rpm. I just got the clutch out, and it's time to shift already! (annoyed) I am still in the middle of the intersection under the light and need to shift already! (annoyed) I never even had a chance to hop on the gas, and everyone is passing me (annoyed again) If I instead give it a little more gas in first, then it's like a light switch, it revs to 4000 rpm in a heartbeat, I am now at 23 mph and I pass everyone, At least I can get on it, in first, for a sec, and I can make it thru an intersection, but it's way more oomph than I needed. There doesn't seem to be a happy medium, and I drive a V6.

With your 3.75 first you would have about the same overall if you had a 3:55 rear. You'd have a 13.3 to 1.. With V8 torque you'd have more problems than I do. Smaller rear gears would calm it down a bit. 9 or 10:1 overall in first gear is all you need with a V8. 11:1 is a lot unless you are drag racing. The famous 2.20 & 4.11 combo is only 9 to 1. Many SB and most BBs were only 7 or 8:1.

The heavily geared late model Mustangs are the same way, they are very "rev-happy", they rev a lot, real fast, if you step on it in first, then you gotta shift real quick. And they have the other 1st gear ratio.....but at least it can handle V8 torque.

 

Thank you, Leigh, for taking the time to write this candid reply. I really appreciate it. I def think it is time to reconsider the V6 T5.

 

I had a similar problem in my 69 Z/28-I swapped in a GM T5, and with the factory 3.73:1 rear, first gear was over before it got started. My first solution was to stop using 1st gear, the car would pull away just fine in 2nd gear. My ultimate solution was to swap the rear to 3.08 gears and I found the car to be much more tractable and the OD was much more efficient.
-Peter

 

Here's a chart I made up to help find the sweet spot with an overdrive trans. My goal was 9:1 or 10:1 in 1st, and 2000-2300 rpm at 70 mph cruise. A couple of combos work. I like the 2500 rpm cruise of my CTS stick, and that rpm could be a little less with V8 torque. I don't think I'd want a carb V8 much lower than 2300, but it might be fine with modern fuel injection and/or a milder cam. Mine's not that mild. I know, the new vettes cruise way lower than that, but I don't have a new vette, mines a half century old

 

an adapter plate to fit the ford pattern to the chebby bell housing will take up that diff in length. a sawzall also works. there are LOTS more decently geared Mustang trannys than 88-92 camaro firebirds. and the adapter plate fits that trans too. is that your crossmember? or pics of someone else's? if doing it that way, cut out the tops of the exhaust holes. with a full beam across the bottom you will have plenty of strength and no longer have to remove exhaust every time you get underneath. what rear do you currently have? and how much more is it to buy a US trans and get it shipped over to you? here is the adapter for S10 trans to our bell. https://www.ebay.com/itm/S-10-T5-ada...oAAOxyfSpSTqmX the input shaft cover is diff size on mustang trans but i am pretty sure you could use your V6 cover on the Mustang trans. or this may be the adapter/ https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bellhousing...sAAOSwfu9dfLr3
or you could put your trans into this correct case. https://www.ebay.com/itm/T5-WC-Trans...UAAOSw241YZu5-

 

Thanks Gents. You are all super !

I am getting over my denial. I think you have brought me to the wisdom that this V6 T5 is too much effing around.

I got a bead on another T5 from a 1991 RS Camaro. It is a 1352-196 with 90K on it. it should have a 2.95 first and a 0.63 fifth.

It comes with a floor pan cutout with boot and all this:



I am thinking I should be able to use the bellhousing and hydraulics. Worth a try ?

The clutch disc is smaller than mine but, AFAIK, that is not a problem. I think it will work with my 168 flywheel and pressure plate.

The pedal assembly might have some brackets and bits I can re-use. I wonder if I can get the trans mount + brackets...

Any additional thoughts ? The speedo will need adressing because electric.

It should be a straightforward install, no ?

 

I think I am reading that I will need his pressure plate to fit under this bellhousing. I think his flywheel is a dual pattern 168 tooth. Hmmm.

My butt is a 3.36

Gents - I am going to start another thread on specifically the install of this T5. Link to follow...

 

That is someone else's solution with the cross member.

The rear is a 3.36

I don't know what shipping should be... 200-350 ? I will def have to sell off some parts, possibly the old muncie and shifting mech. Typically you need to add 35% of fees to get stuff over here.

 

that is the trans you are looking for. correct ratio. correct front face. mounts to your muncie bell hsng. uses your existing clutch, pedals, levers, throwout bearing. has cable speedo. has the correct output spline count to use the corvette driveshaft that can be unbolted to remove u-joint. (still need to shorten it 3 or 3.5 inches. 75-90 mm for you guys.) people will buy most of that leftover stuff, especially the bell. you don't need any of it. i just double checked my 176 code trans. definitely cable speedo. if that is electric speedo doubt everything about it and count revolutions to verify 1st and OD.

 

This is the speedo out. Not correct for a 196 ?

 

that looks like a cable speedo setup with an electric speedo conversion. i could be wrong. i was SURE ll 88-92 camarobirds used cable. my 88 trans 176 code does. is your v6 trans electric speedo? My 176 code speedo output.

 

Better choice. With a 3.73 rear you should have about 9:1 in first gear and about a 1800 rpm cruise at 70. Great gear choice if you have a mild cam. Could go with a 3.73 rear if you want a little more acceleration. Good luck!

 

This is what was on my 1991 Cambird () V6 T5

 

Yes. I have been examining those gears and how they match. I know, one day, I will go through the diff. When I do that, likely I change the gearing. The OD cruise rpm did look a tick low and the first gear could be a smidgen deeper.