Beating a Dead Horse
Thread Starter
Obsessed
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 627
Likes: 394
From: Valencia, Spain
2025 C3 ('68-'73) of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2023 C3 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2019 C3 of Year Finalist (stock)
Beating a Dead Horse
Please be patient, I ended up buying, Shell Rimula R4 X 15W 40 Ci4 E7 DH1 motor oil ( diesel ). I got the 5 liter container, this was recommended because it has zinc ( ZDDP ) although I don’t see anywhere on the container a mention of that.
Now before I go ahead and change the oil just want to make sure I’m not going to F anything up. The climate here is similar to Southern CA. It gets chilly but would never snow and the weather is already getting in the high 60s, low 70s during the day... I’m sure I’m obsessing a bit but the only thing that throws me off is it says it’s for diesel motors. I’ve been told it doesn’t matter but before I fill it up with this oil just wanted to check with you guys first...
Now before I go ahead and change the oil just want to make sure I’m not going to F anything up. The climate here is similar to Southern CA. It gets chilly but would never snow and the weather is already getting in the high 60s, low 70s during the day... I’m sure I’m obsessing a bit but the only thing that throws me off is it says it’s for diesel motors. I’ve been told it doesn’t matter but before I fill it up with this oil just wanted to check with you guys first...
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 19,347
Likes: 654
From: Tampa, Florida
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 8,336
Likes: 2,809
From: Cool Northern Michigan
As the story goes and you already know, Zinc was removed from oil years ago (now returned) but rumor was Shell Rotella was the last company to remove the zinc.
So, hot rodders with the flat tappet cam flocked to the stores and grabbed up Rottela.
Point is, if the label doesn't specify ZDDP then its not there. Maybe Europe still has old jugs of oil still in circulation.
And if someone tells you not to worry about zinc, ask them to pay for your new cam & lifters, parts / labor.
I would find something better. Its not a diesel tractor.
So, hot rodders with the flat tappet cam flocked to the stores and grabbed up Rottela.
Point is, if the label doesn't specify ZDDP then its not there. Maybe Europe still has old jugs of oil still in circulation.
And if someone tells you not to worry about zinc, ask them to pay for your new cam & lifters, parts / labor.
I would find something better. Its not a diesel tractor.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
As the story goes and you already know, Zinc was removed from oil years ago (now returned) but rumor was Shell Rotella was the last company to remove the zinc.
So, hot rodders with the flat tappet cam flocked to the stores and grabbed up Rottela.
Point is, if the label doesn't specify ZDDP then its not there. Maybe Europe still has old jugs of oil still in circulation.
And if someone tells you not to worry about zinc, ask them to pay for your new cam & lifters, parts / labor.
I would find something better. Its not a diesel tractor.
So, hot rodders with the flat tappet cam flocked to the stores and grabbed up Rottela.
Point is, if the label doesn't specify ZDDP then its not there. Maybe Europe still has old jugs of oil still in circulation.
And if someone tells you not to worry about zinc, ask them to pay for your new cam & lifters, parts / labor.
I would find something better. Its not a diesel tractor.
In USA ... Labels on Shell and other Diesel oil (bottle/jug/bucket/drum) have Never specified elements such as Zinc, Antimony, Calcium, Phosphorus etc.
But some companies do publish elemental analysis on their websites. Otherwise, do RELY on VOA (Virgin Oil Analyses) published on BITOG & other websites ... Or ...
... Or send your own VO sample off for your own VOA.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 8,336
Likes: 2,809
From: Cool Northern Michigan
H-m-m-m-m. I thought all jugs of oil specify wether or not zinc is included. At least my containers do. Its called ingredients. Big label: Contains ZDDP !
Last edited by HeadsU.P.; Feb 9, 2020 at 06:39 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 788
Likes: 100
From: Indianapolis IN
Please know that with high detergent oil such as diesel oils the zinc has a hard time remaining on the surface because of said detergents, negating alot of the benefit of zinc/phos.
If it's stock cam/lifters/springs - then you'll be fine and are way overthinking this.
Biggest issues are with new cam/lifters and/or aggressive cams and high spring pressures.
Add-on additives are cheap insurance - if you have any available.
If it's stock cam/lifters/springs - then you'll be fine and are way overthinking this.
Biggest issues are with new cam/lifters and/or aggressive cams and high spring pressures.
Add-on additives are cheap insurance - if you have any available.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 8,336
Likes: 2,809
From: Cool Northern Michigan
I disagree with some of that. Before I was informed about the lack of zinc, I wiped out three lobes and three lifters using stock heads STOCK 40+ yr old weak valve springs. So its not always new cams or high spring pressures. One lifter actually had a pin hole wore through. Several were concave.
I simply changed the oil on a recently purchased Vette not knowing about off-the-shelf oils.
This damage all took place within one yr.
I simply changed the oil on a recently purchased Vette not knowing about off-the-shelf oils.
This damage all took place within one yr.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 788
Likes: 100
From: Indianapolis IN
I disagree with some of that. Before I was informed about the lack of zinc, I wiped out three lobes and three lifters using stock heads STOCK 40+ yr old weak valve springs. So its not always new cams or high spring pressures. One lifter actually had a pin hole wore through. Several were concave.
I simply changed the oil on a recently purchased Vette not knowing about off-the-shelf oils.
This damage all took place within one yr.
I simply changed the oil on a recently purchased Vette not knowing about off-the-shelf oils.
This damage all took place within one yr.
Diesel oil just isn't for HiPerf valvetrains really ,(better than some light duty oil's), but isn't this a stock 350 ?
I have maintained a lot of engines in the last 45 yrs and they fared well (except for that '78 C20), alot weren't stock either, just sayin, I don't want to sound like I'm arguing with your point - it can happen. and it is better to be safe !
I wouldn't offer help if I didn't know or have some background and an honest desire to help others.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 10,641
Likes: 2,112
From: Golden Colorado
Not just that it has ZDDP. BUT the question is also How Much. AND yes valve spring has a lot to do with this as well as the metallurgy of the cam. My personal experience is at least 1200ppm and don’t go overboard on spring pressure. AND ZDDP does not work well with high detergent oils. JMHO 
Last edited by Vette5311; Feb 9, 2020 at 08:22 PM.
Thread Starter
Obsessed
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 627
Likes: 394
From: Valencia, Spain
2025 C3 ('68-'73) of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2023 C3 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2019 C3 of Year Finalist (stock)
I disagree with some of that. Before I was informed about the lack of zinc, I wiped out three lobes and three lifters using stock heads STOCK 40+ yr old weak valve springs. So its not always new cams or high spring pressures. One lifter actually had a pin hole wore through. Several were concave.
I simply changed the oil on a recently purchased Vette not knowing about off-the-shelf oils.
This damage all took place within one yr.
I simply changed the oil on a recently purchased Vette not knowing about off-the-shelf oils.
This damage all took place within one yr.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,358
Likes: 99
Ok this is slightly off topic concerning oil, but probably dead on concerning beating dead horses! I’ve only had my ‘73 for 2.5 months after 46 year wait, so y’all cut me some slack. These cars were built when gas was leaded and cheap. Is there anything else I should be putting in the tank besides ethanol free 93 octane? It’s a stock 350 with 4 speed. Thanks in advance!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 278
From: Olmsted Falls, Ohio
Ok this is slightly off topic concerning oil, but probably dead on concerning beating dead horses! I’ve only had my ‘73 for 2.5 months after 46 year wait, so y’all cut me some slack. These cars were built when gas was leaded and cheap. Is there anything else I should be putting in the tank besides ethanol free 93 octane? It’s a stock 350 with 4 speed. Thanks in advance!
Oh yeah, and maybe start your own thread.
Last edited by KenSny; Feb 10, 2020 at 07:36 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: WI