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Borgeson Steering Box. Different Turns to Lock?

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Old Feb 29, 2020 | 08:02 PM
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Default Borgeson Steering Box. Different Turns to Lock?

I got the power steering conversion box in today. Still waiting for the pump bracket to complete, but it looks good so far. One oddity I found is that there is a different amount of travel in the wheel left vs. right lock-to-lock. I do not know if this is somehow in the steering linkage or in the box. I suppose it could have been this way with the original box. I would not have noticed.

Before I started I straighted the wheels as perfectly as I could. Steering wheel was straight. I centered the box on the bench by counting turns and also by the feel at center. I marked the position, but since the pitman arm can only go on in 90 degree increments, the final adjustment would be easy on the car if it was close on the bench.

Since there is only one way that the rag joint coupler fits on the box, this was automatic. The steering column end was indexed to that position by putting in the other side of the rag after the pitman, box, and rag was installed.

I put the car up in the air and went lock to lock. I was surprised when the left it went a full 1.5 turns. Right went about 1.25. I saw no interferences.


Right



Left


Is this right?

Last edited by VetteLooking; Feb 29, 2020 at 08:03 PM. Reason: Picture
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Old Mar 1, 2020 | 09:26 AM
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You can get it even. These conversions always require adjustment to the tie rods. Make sure that you have box centered, then make sure column is oriented correctly. Remove horn button and view top of steering shaft. There is a chisel mark on top center of shaft. It’s possible a lazy alignment tech popped the steering wheel hub off to correct an alignment issue. Once box and column have been verified you can look at tie rods and alignment. If it’s off you could be hitting a-arm stops.
*Note, you may need to remove the star screw for the tele **** to see the mark on the shaft.

Last edited by Protour63; Mar 1, 2020 at 10:56 AM.
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Old Mar 2, 2020 | 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Protour63
You can get it even. These conversions always require adjustment to the tie rods. Make sure that you have box centered, then make sure column is oriented correctly. Remove horn button and view top of steering shaft. There is a chisel mark on top center of shaft. It’s possible a lazy alignment tech popped the steering wheel hub off to correct an alignment issue. Once box and column have been verified you can look at tie rods and alignment. If it’s off you could be hitting a-arm stops.
*Note, you may need to remove the star screw for the tele **** to see the mark on the shaft.

Thanks.

The dot and the original flat in the steering shaft are at 12 o'clock.

I went over this in my head several times this weekend. Since the box and the coupler had to be where they are, the only place where it could be off is the shaft to the coupler. This could only happen if the wheels were not actually straight and I am trying to get the steering wheel at 12 o'clock when it should not be. This is only plausible since there was so much slop in the original box.

I will have to take it for a drive after the pump comes. Worst case, I have to remove the column for the fifth time on the project. Since Borgeson makes the new coupler, I am not sure why they do not make their setscrew line up with the original column flat. It would be so much easier.
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Old Mar 2, 2020 | 08:26 AM
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I replaced my rag joint and switched over to the Borgeson U-joint when I installed the Borgeson box. Even with the new U-joint where you could technically install it so the set screw lines up with the flat spot they advise you specifically in the instructions not to line it up like that but to instead drill a divot for the set screw. I don’t understand why you couldn’t use the flat part but I followed the instructions. With the box and column installed there really is no way that the coupler would slip out anyway.
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Old Mar 2, 2020 | 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Pmccooey
I replaced my rag joint and switched over to the Borgeson U-joint when I installed the Borgeson box. Even with the new U-joint where you could technically install it so the set screw lines up with the flat spot they advise you specifically in the instructions not to line it up like that but to instead drill a divot for the set screw. I don’t understand why you couldn’t use the flat part but I followed the instructions. With the box and column installed there really is no way that the coupler would slip out anyway.
This is exactly what I did on my 79, though mine was from Flaming River.



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Old Mar 2, 2020 | 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Pmccooey
I replaced my rag joint and switched over to the Borgeson U-joint when I installed the Borgeson box. Even with the new U-joint where you could technically install it so the set screw lines up with the flat spot they advise you specifically in the instructions not to line it up like that but to instead drill a divot for the set screw. I don’t understand why you couldn’t use the flat part but I followed the instructions. With the box and column installed there really is no way that the coupler would slip out anyway.
Correct. Although technically you could screw into the flat, your wheel would be significantly off. In my case, it would be almost upside down (but not quite).

Since the box is fixed to the frame (hopefully), and since the spines on the box and pitman only allow positioning of the arm in 90 degree increments, the user has no way to influence the adjustment on that side of the box. The rag joint coupler at the box is also keyed and there is a flat spot on the input side of the box, that is fixed. The two halves of the rag joint only go together two ways (180 degrees from each other), so that is a small variable, but one that could be easily overcome if there was an assembly issue.

What I don't quite understand is Borgeson not indexing everything so that when the box is centered that the setscrew for the input side of the rag is at the top. This would mate up with the flat on the column and the dot for wheel alignment. It would take out almost all of the guesswork.

We will see when I drive it if the wheel is straight or I need to move a few splines.
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Old Jun 16, 2020 | 01:49 PM
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So for sake of bringing closure to this, I wanted point out my critical flaw. You know what happens when you assume.....

I mentioned previously that I started by straightening the wheels as perfectly as I could and ensuring the steering wheel was pointed straight ahead. I then pulled the old box and started re-assembly in this exact position.

With this, the assumption was that the original box was properly centered and then properly aligned. This was an early 1969 and therefore the box input shaft had serrations only and no flat to align. The PO installed the box and coupling off by about 1/4 turn of the shaft. When the car was aligned, an adjustment able to be accommodated in the tie rod ends and the wheel was centered by adjusting these in one direction even though the box was not centered. This was confirmed since the tie rod ends were shifted mostly to one side. I believe this may have also accelerated wear in the old box as the area where the "new center" was located was extremely sloppy, even beyond the clearance that is built in the box in areas other than the true center.

I was able to recenter the new box by turning the tie rod ends 2 1/2 turns in the same direction. This got it close enough until I get an alignment. I already attempted to adjust caster in my garage to get closer to the maximum per the Borgeson recommendations, so an alignment is certainly in order at this point regardless.

As has been stated here, double-checking everything on a 50-year-old car is always appropriate.

At some point, I am planning on making a new thread. There are many there's on what to do when installing this, but I am an expert on what not to do when installing this box. This issue here was only one of my many time-wasting rabbit holes.

Thanks all.

Last edited by VetteLooking; Jun 16, 2020 at 01:50 PM.
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