I've got a question about front and rear inner and outer wheel bearings.

I reached out on a local automotive FB group for recommendations for good local mechanics to have the non-vette specific items taken care of on my car.
I contacted a few of the places mentioned and one gave me what looks like a pretty good quote for a lot of the work.

Front and rear inner and outer bearings
Pinion seal
Front and rear pad and rotors
Upper and lower ball joints
Front and rear shocks (pretty sure I need struts, not shocks. I'll have to reach back out to confirm pricing differences)
Diff fluid exchange and brake fluid exchange
$3400 give or take. That’s parts and labor and taxes. Lifetime warranty on parts for ball joints and bearings and shocks and brake pads, all labor is covered for 12 months/12k miles.

So my question is based on some info I got from one of the corvette shops I took the car to first.

Are the wheel bearings especially difficult or very different from other cars? One of the techs I talked to said they're a PITA and you have to have special tools to flair a part and have to keep re-fitting until they're perfect, which is why he suggests going with some sort of replacement from Van Steel, but that sounded even more expensive.

I'm going at this somewhat blind since I don't know much about auto service myself. I don't want to get taken for a ride (pun unintended), but I also don't want to get a 'good deal' and end up with shoddy work.

​​​​​​​On a related note, how much should I expect to pay to have the trailing arms bushings and shim kit installed and dialed in?

 

Fronts are nothing special, rear bearings are unique and the average shop can Not do them correctly. Why are you doing all this work unless the rotors are worn and the bearings are making noise and the ball joints have too much play?
C3 Corvettes dont use struts.

 

First of all, MelWff is spot-on about the rear bearings. Before you choose this shop, have them tell you very specifically how they will approach that job. If they give vague answers, walk away. Read this forum about rear bearings and you’ll quickly see why we’re raising the flag on that issue.

Second, MelWff asks a great question. There is a fine line between Preventative Maintenance and “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it”. Be sure to fully understand why your electing to do the work.

That said, I assume you have a leak at the pinion seal. I again, have your mechanic tell you the specifics about how he will do this job. There is a crush sleeve between the bearings and one has to be very careful when retorquing the retention nut to maintain the same pinion preload as before. I would insist on using a SKF 17190 seal.

Shocks. A good choice are the Koni 8040s. Lots of opinions on what the best shocks are (search this forum) but the Konis are a choice of many. Selling at Ecklers for about $425 for a set of 4.

Bearings. Insist on Timkens and made in USA. I buy all of mine from Denny’s Driveshafts.

Ball joints. Insist on Moog K6034 and K6035. Made in USA. Selling at many places for ~$225.

Rotors. BE CAREFUL ABOUT CHINESE parts. I am not sure the best place to buy rotors but the good Corvette suppliers (like Blair’s, Wilcox) can help here. Note that the original rotors were riveted to the hubs, then final machined as an assembly. Some aftermarket rotors aren’t even drilled for the rivet holes. Lots of horror stories of people changing rotors, only to introduce runout issues that ultimately result in loss of brakes due to air being pumped back into the system by wobbly rotors. Once again, ask your mechanic about specifics for this job. Is he planning to measure (and document) runout after replacement?

Pads. Countless opinions on what are the best pads. Search this forum for this topic. I personally use Porterfield R4-S pads.

Diff fluid. One more time, countless opinions on this. I use Lucas 85W-140 and two bottles of ACDelco 10-4003 additive.

At the end of the day, you might be better off by getting a pair of rebuilt trailing arms from one of the Corvette suppliers (Bair’s, Wilcox, VanSteel, etc.).

We’re here to help. Let us know your progress.

 

The first 2 corvette shops I took it to both said I needed this work done for safety due to the amount of wear/play/whatever.
Good to know.

It's just a standard repair place, guess I'll steer clear. I don't need to end up with more headaches than I already have.
I'll ask the manager, "How do you plan to replace the rear bearings?" I'll post the answer here. Probably won't be till Mon or Tues though.

I always feel so much worse after asking questions on the forum. I know everyone here is very friendly and helpful. But for someone that has no mechanical knowledge the answers given usually make me feel overwhelmed with responsibility to get things done the right way. And not a lot of local enthusiast help to be found. Our corvette clubs are basically shut down due to scary Chinese virii. And the guys running the shops are always going to be more motivated to make money than to be fully honest with someone when they know we don't know what they're talking about.

 

Take or ship the car to Van Steel. They've been in business for a long time and do excellent work.
If Van Steel is too far away, choose a closer quality Vette shop with references.
​​​​​​​Cutting corners, pricewise, will bite you in the rear.

 

Looks like they're in Clearwater. That's only about 150 miles away.
The 3rd shop I'm supposed to take the car to on Tuesday showed me the '69 they currently have on a lift.
The entire underside was replacement Van Steel parts, But it looked like a REALLY expensive upgrade.

I'll call them directly on Monday with my list and see what they say an estimate might be.

 

Sounds like you are new to these cars, so you should do your homework before writing a check unless money isn't as important as convenience. If you have any mechanical sense, tools, and are physically capable you can do some of this work yourself and if you make a mistake learn from it and move on saving money in the process.

Front bearings and brakes would be done together cutting labor unless billed out separately as I suspect it was. what about hoses, copper washers, and calipers? Rotors should be measured and if not gouged or undersize setup for under 005 runout- something your local garage isn't going to do or tell you about in many cases.

Ball joints can be done on the car without removing the spring or arms. The deal here is to use quality parts not the junk some chains sell. There were issues with imported joints failing in no time in the past.

There is maybe $500 - $600 worth of parts shown, depending on brand, quality, and depth of work planned.$2800 more less profit for a couple of days on a lift is good money.

 

Alright, lost again. Is a strut rod not the same thing when told you need new struts?

 

Yes, new to corvettes. Not made of money, but also have little to no time to do this sort of thing myself. Hence why I'm asking for advice here. Trying to get it into safe, weatherproof drivable condition without getting ripped off.
So far it's been to 2 shops that specialize in vettes. Taking it to a 3rd Tuesday.

If only you lived next door...

 

Yes , there are two struts on the back of the corvette . Yours could have worn bushes and just need replacing (the bush part) or during a previous owner ,someone bent the strut to try and get an alignment done. so the part is damaged . I see a lot of that on guys cars on here . Some workshops just don't know what to do .Of course you have to ask if the labor time and cost of putting new bushings in is less or equal to just replacing with whole new parts.

One thing you can do is ask for all the old pieces to be kept and pictures of progress (your rear wheel trailing arm with the bearing housing empty for example ), that way you have some kind of proof they actually did work on that area.

 

I think it is about $800 too high......
The rear bearings are a pretty high skill item for the average mechanic......but their is too much labor in there. Plus, they get their part a smokin' discount and charge you list for them.
Even at $1000 for parts and $2000 ofr labor....someone is making money.

Jebby

 

in your original post you placed shocks and struts together, struts are used on modern cars instead of shocks and are not the same as strut rods

 

I suggest dealing with the front and rear requirements separately. Ball joints, front wheel bearings, front rotors and front brakes should not pose a particular problem to a competent shop. Except for the fact that brakes are disk, the design and therefore repair is roughly the same as any late 50's Chevrolet.

The rear, as said earlier, is a whole different animal. Everything from rear wheel bearings to rear end alignment will be foreign to most people under retirement age - unless of course they have specialized in older Corvettes. I's question whether you really need rear wheel bearings unless you have symptoms (noise, etc.) If rear wheel bearing replacement is required, multiple issues (such as worn railing arm bushings - excessive rust, etc.) can be resolved effectively and completely with replacement arms. Several good vendors have already been mentioned.

 

Given all that you have identified, Gearhead74 has a good suggestion regarding carving up front and rear work. If you jack with all four corners at once, you might introduce an issue where you’re not sure what caused it. That said, given the history of rotor design (riveted to the hub) the fronts are not the same as the stove bolt Chevy design. See my previous post for details.

Appreciate the fact that you may not have the mechanical aptitude we gearheads have but you did have the presence of mind to reach out to us for advice. Take a deep breath, take some time to absorb all this and move ahead cautiously (and informed).

How many miles on the car? How long have you owned it? Any previous history of the car can be helpful.

A good shop will be able to tell you “you have X amount of wear in component Y”, not just “it’s worn and needs to be replaced”. Does the diff leak so much that there is a puddle on the floor or is it just a bit of damp dust on the housing? You can live with the latter but not the former. Similar with the shocks - any sign of leakage? If you “bounce” the car by pushing down on a bumper, does the car settle immediately or bounce a couple more times? Any evidence of bad tire wear?

 

I feel like the shop is just saying you need to do "everything" just because it is old. You can save yourself a lot of money, and headaches, by asking a few good questions.

Pulling the brake rotors is a PITA since they are rivited and usually not worth it unless your are undersized or badly scored. Many c3 rotors can last 100k miles or more. They are much more durable and difficult to replace than newer cars where changing the rotors is a standard brake pad change operation. The issue is we have solid mounted calipers, and almost no other car does, and the rotors need to have less than 0.004" runout after they are installed, and just bolting on a new set of rotors won't get you there. Even most brake shops will not know what you are talking about. There is a reason they are rivited on. If they are smooth, and still rivited on from the factory, just leave them alone. They don't "warp".

The rear trailing arm wheel bearings and bushings are very specialized jobs. Van Steel is one of the best Vette suppliers in the country. Either get trailing arms from them (for your local shop to R&R), or just have Van Steel do the whole job. They could even shim the rotors for correct runout and ship them back to you. Then any respectable shop could bolt them on. The two T Arms are close to $1000 after rebuilding, in a box, plus installation. Have the local shop show you if the rear wheel bearings are loose, they can easily do that, and if not just leave them well enough alone. If they take them out, just have them be very careful to keep track of the rear T/A arm shims, and to put them back where they came from.

Front A-arm bushings, ball joints and wheel bearings are easily handled by a decent shop. They should be able to show you where the wear is. Just have them leave the rotor on the hub.

 

How do I have them show me these things? I have no idea what I'll be looking at.

 

Basically they can just show you. There should be zero wiggle.
If the tire wiggles top & bottom it's the wheel bearings. It has to be off the ground.
The bushings and ball joints they just push & pull on various spots, if it wiggle or clicks, it's too much. Has to be on a lift.

 

Shoot a video while the mech is going over the car, showing where he feels the condition(s) warrant attention. Post it here and we can provide feedback.

 

If we're talking front bearings, they may be fine but misadjusted. Rear bearings are different

To tknospdr: Grab the tire at 12:00 and 6:00. Try to rock the tire's top and bottom in and out from the car. A loose bearing will have some play whereas a well adjusted bearing will not. If you feel or hear a grinding or clicking as the tire rotates then the bearing needs to be replaced.

Rear bearings are another story and I echo the previous comments to have an experienced shop that specializes in these C2 & C3 trailing arms do the rebuild or exchange. The specialized tooling to remove the spindle assembly and setting up the proper shims requires experience.

I know this has been asked before but I'm not remembering that you answered: is there a reason you are having all of this work done at the same time? Are there problems you've experienced with the car that caused you to seek out having it serviced?

 

The reason I'm having all this done is that I'm relying on the experience and recommendations of the shops I've taken the car to be seen at.
The second shop said it was dangerous to drive in it's current condition and he recommended that the following all be done to make is safe to drive:

-Front wheel bearings (outer / inner & seals) -Rear wheel bearings (outer / inner & seals) -Ball joints (upper & lower) -Trailing arm bushings and shim kit -Pinion seal -Brake pads -Brake fluid -Struts -Differential cover gasket and fluid -Alignment

I'm really at their mercy as I don't know what to look for or ask about. That's why I'm trying to sure up what they tell me with info from the forum. You guys don't stand to make any money from the advice you give so there's no motivation to suggest things that don't need to be done.

I can tell you that the place that suggested the above items did rock the wheels at 6 and 12 and I did see several degrees of motion. Since I was only watching I can't tell you if it felt like it was grinding or clicking.
They seemed pretty straight forward and echoed most of what the first shop suggested needed to be done, so I'm thinking it's probably mostly legit.
Also, they charge $45 to look at the car and I didn't have cash. He said their CC machine would charge me a fee so just bring cash by next time you're in the area. Seems like the kind of people I want to do business with.

On a final note, I'm taking it to a 3rd shop today for yet another opinion. Not sure if the guy was kidding or not as the shop he works for seems to do A LOT of work on Corvettes, but when I asked him about the rocking of the wheels (I had already read about that on the forums prior to this thread), he said, "Yeah, the older cars always have a little play". Then he proceeded to show me on the '69 he was working on and seemed impressed with himself that there wasn't any play at all on that car.
Should I bother even having them look at mine?