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Thinking of re ringing with engine in car. Pretty low mile engine that smoked pulled the heads and piston tops look good and clean around the edges. Told this is from blow by. Cv it c has maybe 2000 miles on it since the last cv short block build. It sat for a few years and i believe had an excessive fuel wash incident. So the parts are low miles.
anyone do this with the crank still installed? I know the dingle ball honing will make a mess requiring thorough cleaning. Additionally i have a tilt/ removable front end, so i dont have to reach over the fenders.
From: Some days your the dog and some days your the hydrant.
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Would I do it in situ? Nope. Its a good opportunity to remove the engine, strip it down, take measurements, reurbish/replace worn parts and put it back together. Now I know what I have.
I have no idea how you determined the ring seal was making it smoke.
But it is possible.
If the honing pattern is not close enough to what the rings specify, they may never seat / seal.
It can happen.
So IF that is what happened, would I re-ring it and ball-hone it in the car?
Maybe, if my machinist buddy would stop over and do the ball-hone, and make sure the pattern is correct.
I wouldn't.....not on this. I have on 4 cyl stuff that I tried to make a buck on when I was younger.....but never a Big Block Vette.
Remove it.....get some Total Seal or Speed Pro rings and have a reputable shop do a "ten pass" hone on the block with a diamond hone.
Nothing like a good ring seal.......icing on the cake.
By the time you strip it down to the point required to do the work, it would be faster and easier to pull the engine. Plus, you need to inspect the bores, not assume this is the issue. That will be much easier on a stand.
agreed. Having said that the short block was new and freshly machined 2000 miles and 8 oil changes ago
In that case it should not need rings unless end gap is to large or they never seated. If you are going to go this route, which I don’t recommend, take it out, put it on an engine stand and rotate upside down. Hone from the bottom lightly with crank throw way up. Clean well so everything falls downward out of engine. It’s still a crapshoot but you stand the least chance of getting grit in the engine. I wouldn’t do it, but in the case of quick resale of car. Even then you have done 90% of the work to doing it right. Good Luck.
I know you're thinking it’s less work to do the rings with the engine in the car. It isn’t. I’ve done it both ways. It’s easier to pull the engine and do it properly. (Before anyone asks, I was young and stupid.)
Not sure that i will or woulld. But it seems like with care accompanied with an additional helping of care, it can be done. I used to do top end rebuilds frequently for motorcycles and such. Sometimes would hone and re-ring. Never had an issue with ring seal. The cost to get a proper hone and re-ring makes me consider ordering a new short block with more displacement. I may reinstall my heads and related and see how it performs, May not smoke (much) at all. If it does, I will have fresh heads and consider ordering a new 421 c.i. shorrt block.
Isnt there a substance or trick GM dealerships used to reseat the rings when this would happen back in the day? I remember reading about something years ago.
I actually considered replacing my crank while the engine was in the car for a brief minute since I recently broke an ARP balancer bolt off in my crank... But even though the bolt is harder than grade 8, it ended up drilling out like butter with a harbor freight/ hercules titanium bit and retapped nicely.
It kills me that in 2021 the only way to rebuild a 50 year old used Chevy engine is to send it out to a speed shop and spend $5K. There was a point in time that we pulled engines and rebuilt them in the driveway using the same parts and tools we use today.
I've re-ringed 4 bangers in the car like Jebby. But it is a big mess still. All the cleanup makes me wonder if it's really worth the trouble. It might be on a front wheel drive just due to the hassle of getting the motor out if there is sufficient room under the hood.
But even a V6 front wheel would probably make it significantly more difficult.
On a BB Chevy V8 with rear wheel drive in a corvette...I would probably pull it. If it was in a pickup I may consider doing it.
As far as spending big bucks on getting a shop to do it, No I would not do that. A dingle ball hone does a nice job with a nice finish. Just gotta get the right grit for the rings you plan on using.
My current engine I only used the dingle ball hone since taper and roundness was within spec. No problems whatsoever with ring seal at 10.6 CR.
It kills me that in 2021 the only way to rebuild a 50 year old used Chevy engine is to send it out to a speed shop and spend $5K. There was a point in time that we pulled engines and rebuilt them in the driveway using the same parts and tools we use today.
On a BB Chevy V8 with rear wheel drive in a corvette...I would probably pull it.
I'd not do it in the car. I recall pulling the pan on my 454 while it was in the car... it was a total pain because all of the steering components had to be removed or swung away and there was so much gunk all around the underside I couldn't be sure I was keeping the engine's bottom end clean. To change the rings in the car you've also got to remove the intake, heads, all oil and coolant. There's not much more to be done to just pull the block completely and have open (and clean) access all around it.
Last edited by barkingrats; Mar 13, 2021 at 12:07 PM.
I wouldn’t do what your thinking of TBH. I’m wondering if your bores are out of round or something else. To have a fuel wash ruin rings that quick would be pretty epic and quite frankly would also trash the bottom end. I would pull the engine and check it.
Also. It’s totally normal for in frame overhauls to happen where sleeves, bearings, and so on are replaced . Happens all the time to tractors, construction equipment, and over the road trucks. Only time a motor comes out of one of those is if there is a really major issue such as a rod escaping or a bearing spinning. Now should you do it in a corvette? While technically possible due to the lack of access I don’t think I would do it.
Put the heads back on and torque 'em down, then run a leakdown test on each hole. I'd start by hooking a compressor line up to each cylinder and rotate the engine slowly and listen for escaping air. You could have anything from a bad valve job to bad guides to a leaking intake manifold causing it to go through that much oil.
That's what I was getting at. There are several reasons it could burn oil.
You need better tests/confirmation than "it burns oil" before you know which problem it has and whether it needs to be re-ringed.
If it only has 2000 miles on it, and the machine work was done in a shop, I seriously doubt it needs to be re-machined.
Most likely there is an assembly error somewhere.
So who assembled it? And how much experience does he have?
Rings upside down?
Ring gaps way too big?
Ring gaps too small and they broke?
Leaking intake manifold gasket? (very common)
Re ring with engine in car
