Speedway engineering sway bar mounted
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 5,877
Likes: 1
From: Park Ridge IL
Speedway engineering sway bar mounted
There were a couple of guys interested in this when I mentioned it a couple of weeks ago. I finally had some free time this morning and mounted the front Nascar-style swaybar. The swaybar arms come as 15" long billet blanks, so you have to cut it back to the desired length and drill for the connecting linkage. I went with a 8" center to center arm because that's what fit best and provided the desired torsional rate. I still have to get spherical rod ends to make the sway bar linkage so I'll do that tomorrow.
I'm starting with a torsional rate about 20% greater than a 1 1/4" solid production style swaybar. I'll see how that works and tune it from there. I'm also going to replace the stock style rear bar with one as well, probably a 1" hollow bar about 25% less then the front. I have been told that is a good starting tuning point for spring and sway bar rates.
[Modified by Monty, 9:01 AM 12/27/2002]
I'm starting with a torsional rate about 20% greater than a 1 1/4" solid production style swaybar. I'll see how that works and tune it from there. I'm also going to replace the stock style rear bar with one as well, probably a 1" hollow bar about 25% less then the front. I have been told that is a good starting tuning point for spring and sway bar rates.
[Modified by Monty, 9:01 AM 12/27/2002]
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 5,877
Likes: 1
From: Park Ridge IL
Re: Speedway engineering sway bar mounted (gkull)
It will fit both the VB and stock style a-arms. I'm just using spherical rod ends so you can make it fit almost any linkage arrangement.
Here's a picture of the whole thing...
[Modified by Monty, 5:05 PM 12/26/2002]
Here's a picture of the whole thing...
[Modified by Monty, 5:05 PM 12/26/2002]
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Re: Speedway engineering sway bar mounted (SharkAttack)
Couple of more question Monty:) How is the clearance? Presently my front tires keep my VB&P 1 1/8th swaybar shined up. Sometimes I forget that my lock to lock has a limiter.
The other thing is: what is your equivolent front spring rate with your typical settings of the transverse spring? i'm trying to picture your spring total with that much bar
The other thing is: what is your equivolent front spring rate with your typical settings of the transverse spring? i'm trying to picture your spring total with that much bar
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 5,877
Likes: 1
From: Park Ridge IL
Re: Speedway engineering sway bar mounted (gkull)
I can turn the wheels lock to lock with the Steeroids and there is no interference. The sway bar is 37.5" long, the same as the width of the sotck bar. You can order the sway bars in any length though. However, I only have 255 tires on the front. A 275 front tire might touch the end of the bar at full lock.
I called VB a while back to ask what the spring rate was at the different adjustment points for the transverse springs. Unfortunately, no one there could answer my question, they said no one had ever asked them that before. I'm not bashing VB because they have excellent products, but I find it dissappointing that they don't know what the spring or sway bar rates are for the products they sell. I called last month asking what the torsional rate is on their 1 1/8" and 1 1/4" bar and they said they had never heard of rating a sway bar by torsional rate. :rolleyes:
I called VB a while back to ask what the spring rate was at the different adjustment points for the transverse springs. Unfortunately, no one there could answer my question, they said no one had ever asked them that before. I'm not bashing VB because they have excellent products, but I find it dissappointing that they don't know what the spring or sway bar rates are for the products they sell. I called last month asking what the torsional rate is on their 1 1/8" and 1 1/4" bar and they said they had never heard of rating a sway bar by torsional rate. :rolleyes:
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Re: Speedway engineering sway bar mounted (Monty)
Way back when on the forum some guy posted a link to a site that gave a nice list and break down of data on every swaybar from 7/16th - 1 1/4
Maybe somebody can chime in?????? I remember being amazed on how much stronger a small diameter increase makes.
Monty you have to remember that VB&P is a middle man. Just ask them for the manufactures number and you can get all the info you need.
Maybe somebody can chime in?????? I remember being amazed on how much stronger a small diameter increase makes.
Monty you have to remember that VB&P is a middle man. Just ask them for the manufactures number and you can get all the info you need.
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Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 5,877
Likes: 1
From: Park Ridge IL
Re: Speedway engineering sway bar mounted (burners)
Well I finally received the chromoly tubing and rod ends yesterday, so I made up the sway bar arm linkage. I'm using 1/2" chromoly teflon-lined Aurora rod ends, and 3/4" chromoly tubing with Proworks (Chassis Shop) chromoly threaded inserts that I TIG welded in the tubing. The rod ends are rated for almost 15,000 lbs, I figure that's overkill enough ;).
I thought about several different methods of connecting the sway bar linkage to the VB control arms and decided to fabricate a bracket from 2"x1" chromoly rectangular tubing. Since the rod end is only 1/2" wide, I drilled the bracket hole to 1/2" diameter, then TIG welded a 3/8" chromoly tube through the holes in the bracket. I then cut the 3/8" tubing in the center, making a 1/2" wide gap for the rod end. I'm using 3/8", 12pt ARP stainless steel bolts and nuts for the sway bar linkage, and a 1/2" 12pt ARP stainless bolt to mount the bracket to the control arm. I'm going to get the bracket and linkage tube powder coated tomorrow.
I thought about several different methods of connecting the sway bar linkage to the VB control arms and decided to fabricate a bracket from 2"x1" chromoly rectangular tubing. Since the rod end is only 1/2" wide, I drilled the bracket hole to 1/2" diameter, then TIG welded a 3/8" chromoly tube through the holes in the bracket. I then cut the 3/8" tubing in the center, making a 1/2" wide gap for the rod end. I'm using 3/8", 12pt ARP stainless steel bolts and nuts for the sway bar linkage, and a 1/2" 12pt ARP stainless bolt to mount the bracket to the control arm. I'm going to get the bracket and linkage tube powder coated tomorrow.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 5,877
Likes: 1
From: Park Ridge IL
Re: Speedway engineering sway bar mounted (Monty)
I'm assuming that the best setup for adjusting the linkage is to have the sway bar arm parallel to the ground at ride height. If the arm is angled either up or down at ride height, anyone (Redvetracer?) what would the effect be? I assume if the arm isn't at a 90* angle to the linkage it would probably result in a non-linear torsional rate?
[Modified by Monty, 10:30 AM 1/9/2003]
[Modified by Monty, 10:30 AM 1/9/2003]
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 8,220
Likes: 208
Re: Speedway engineering sway bar mounted (Monty)
Looks very impressive Monty. What kinda improvements are you hoping to get by doin this? Any weight savings? You have really shown the rest of us that there more stuff than just the traditional route... :cheers:
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 5,877
Likes: 1
From: Park Ridge IL
Re: Speedway engineering sway bar mounted (groovyjay)
Thanks. I'm looking for improved handling and a means of increased suspension tunability. I'm no suspension expert, and I realize that by adding more tuning variable it certainly increases the chances of tuning it incorrectly, but I hope to learn more about it.
As for there being more stuff than just the traditional route, that's another part of it. I've already got every VB suspension piece and I'm looking to improve upon that. I'm in the process of designing some new upper and lower control arms for a coil over system from chromoly tubing, CNC chromoly ball joint cups with increased camber range, monoball bushings, and screw-in Chrysler style low-friction balljoints.
[Modified by Monty, 10:41 AM 1/9/2003]
As for there being more stuff than just the traditional route, that's another part of it. I've already got every VB suspension piece and I'm looking to improve upon that. I'm in the process of designing some new upper and lower control arms for a coil over system from chromoly tubing, CNC chromoly ball joint cups with increased camber range, monoball bushings, and screw-in Chrysler style low-friction balljoints.
[Modified by Monty, 10:41 AM 1/9/2003]
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,273
Likes: 14
From: Austin TX
Re: Speedway engineering sway bar mounted (Monty)
Hi Monty,
See the Addco website for a table that compares sway bar rates by diameter.
Not long ago, someone posted the formula to calculate sway bar rate. Should be searchable.
The heim link end links you are using look similar to the ones that Herb Adams used to sell. His were very adjustable by allowing connection on the lever arm of the bar at numerous points thus varying the effective length of the lever arm and consequently the bar rate.
As to the proper front/ rear sway bar ratio - I've been trying to figure this out for years and have finally come to the conclusion that there isn't one answer since spring type (steel vs composite), spring rate, sway bar rate, tire size, tire "grippiness" and shock type/rate all enter into the solution. So I continue to experiment.
See the Addco website for a table that compares sway bar rates by diameter.
Not long ago, someone posted the formula to calculate sway bar rate. Should be searchable.
The heim link end links you are using look similar to the ones that Herb Adams used to sell. His were very adjustable by allowing connection on the lever arm of the bar at numerous points thus varying the effective length of the lever arm and consequently the bar rate.
As to the proper front/ rear sway bar ratio - I've been trying to figure this out for years and have finally come to the conclusion that there isn't one answer since spring type (steel vs composite), spring rate, sway bar rate, tire size, tire "grippiness" and shock type/rate all enter into the solution. So I continue to experiment.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,620
Likes: 7
From: Orlando Florida
Re: Speedway engineering sway bar mounted (Monty)
Interesting stuff Monty. Fresh pics of your car is always welcome. It would be nice to have a video or at least a sound bite of it, now that it's (ttsbc) installed with a few miles on it. You guys (Monty,Steve) need to share more driving stories with your rides. I know it's a pain, but dedicated supporters need to know. You know? The sway bar looks cool.
p.s. So does it roast the tires at a 30mph roll, or what? :cheers:
[Modified by smokin75-427, 6:35 PM 1/9/2003]
p.s. So does it roast the tires at a 30mph roll, or what? :cheers:
[Modified by smokin75-427, 6:35 PM 1/9/2003]
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 5,877
Likes: 1
From: Park Ridge IL
Re: Speedway engineering sway bar mounted (smokin75-427)
Let just say I've spun the wheels at almost 80 miles an hour manually shifting the 4L80E. I was driving up 294 and had an encounter with a C5 last fall and scared the crap out of myself. The car probably on jerked to the side maybe 6 inches or so on the shift, but it felt like the car was 90* sideways. I usually don't drive like that, but the guy in the C5 was a jerk. We were driving down the interstate and we ended up side by side. I gave him the "Corvette Wave" and he looked over at me, then craned his neck to look at my car, then made an insulting expression towards me. So I floored it, he tried to keep up...
I bought my wife a digital camcorder for Christmas, as soon as the novelty wears off, I'm gonna get my hands on it and take it with me for a drive. I'm either going to buy the "Sharkbar" or make a roll bar. Either way, it will have a camera mount in the "over the shoulder" position. There are a few safe spots I can go to and get some videos of some runs. When the track reopens in the Spring, I'll get some 1/4 miles runs on video.
I bought my wife a digital camcorder for Christmas, as soon as the novelty wears off, I'm gonna get my hands on it and take it with me for a drive. I'm either going to buy the "Sharkbar" or make a roll bar. Either way, it will have a camera mount in the "over the shoulder" position. There are a few safe spots I can go to and get some videos of some runs. When the track reopens in the Spring, I'll get some 1/4 miles runs on video.
