When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I had the car judged by the NCRS but they hated my oil filter. Lost 5 of 8 points for a PF25 ACDelco oil filter from Corvette Central/Paragon. Bought two both sources sell the same one. Judging manual that is correct for my "CKX" 200 hp 350cuin auto. Anyone know if there is a different source for the filter the NCRS is looking for?
Steve, a little confused by your post. I presume The deductions were on originality and not condition. Do you know what the judging guide says? Good judges will make notes on the judging sheets and explain To you what the deductions are for.
For a 1972 oil filter per the NCRS the originality has 8 points and the Condition 7 points. Your Originality points are divided by 20% for each area (Configuration, Date, Complete , Installation and Finish.
If your filter is a white, red and blue reproduction It Configuration, Date and Finish are not typical.
Configuration issue is the Facet are shorter then originals by 1/3 to 1/2 inch and the bottom flat circle is smaller then originals, then it is dated outside the norm and the finish is typically a painted upper metal ring that should be natural.
With 8 points there would be 1.6 points per area 20% each. So 3 areas of issue would be 4.8 points or 5 points.
A service Blue PF25 would have scored the same.
Since you had 10% or more of the originality available points you would keep all your condition points.
It depends on how much you want to spend for 5 points.
Steve, you also posted your disappointment on the NCRS webpage. Rather than rant on about it, why not post a photo of it and permit forum members to see what the unit you installed looks like and allow a more objective assessment. Forum members like photos (visual learners) to make an assessment.
It depends on how much you want to spend for 5 points.
The NCRS judging game is really that simple, get your first judging complete than back into the numbers and decide where you need to be. Each one of those lost points will cross over to labor and/or parts to correct. I have known of guys chasing a air cleaner wing nut and paying stupid money for a couple of points.
It’s hit or miss… You really need to know WHO the judge is and how they judge. Big ask, I know, but that’s really what it comes down to.
I can tell you that if I was still NCRS team leader for 1970-1972, none of that red, white, and blue stuff would fly. The originals were black writing over a white background… Just like every other original oil filter used on a Chevrolet engines during those years. You can’t convince me that Corvettes used a “special” oil filter on their engines and the rest of the car line used something else. The black/white filter itself was unique in that they were only used by the engine plants. It was a way to make sure that the oil/filter change intervals were being met by the customer.
it is an oil filter. and they used a unique filter so they could tell if you never changed your oil and filter. so, you lose NCRS points by changing your oil? or void the warranty to keep it worth more money in 50 years? do dry rotted belts and hoses increase points too? does the oil have to be black to match the writing on the filter?
it is an oil filter. and they used a unique filter so they could tell if you never changed your oil and filter. so, you lose NCRS points by changing your oil? or void the warranty to keep it worth more money in 50 years? do dry rotted belts and hoses increase points too? does the oil have to be black to match the writing on the filter?
Pssst… You do know that the aftermarket reproduces belts, hoses, AND black/white oil filters (all to varying degrees of accuracy)?
It’s hit or miss… You really need to know WHO the judge is and how they judge. Big ask, I know, but that’s really what it comes down to.
I can tell you that if I was still NCRS team leader for 1970-1972, none of that red, white, and blue stuff would fly. The originals were black writing over a white background… Just like every other original oil filter used on a Chevrolet engines during those years. You can’t convince me that Corvettes used a “special” oil filter on their engines and the rest of the car line used something else. The black/white filter itself was unique in that they were only used by the engine plants. It was a way to make sure that the oil/filter change intervals were being met by the customer.
Regards,
Stan Falenski
with Stan. But we were not the majority to approve the change to the black and white filter. I for one believed the reason for the black and white was used as Stan pointed out for Warranty. The other was cost a simple black and white finish. The cost for the white, red and blue may be just a few cents per filter, but multiply that by the millions produced as the PF25 was used on so many GM vehicles. Plus the white, red and blue filter looked better when an owner was buying one to be installed at oil change time. Advertising at its best.
it is an oil filter. and they used a unique filter so they could tell if you never changed your oil and filter. so, you lose NCRS points by changing your oil? or void the warranty to keep it worth more money in 50 years? do dry rotted belts and hoses increase points too? does the oil have to be black to match the writing on the filter?
The filter was not unique as millions were made for the production line. Also the NCRS judging process you do not gain points for Originality or Condition. All Corvettes start with 4500 points. Points are only deducted if there are deviations from the original item being judged or its condition is not as it was when new.
It’s hit or miss… You really need to know WHO the judge is and how they judge. Big ask, I know, but that’s really what it comes down to.
What I find is that judges with limited experience default to absolutes and when looking at these perishable items...factory practice was anything but absolute. I could go into detail with fan belts and show how the factory used multiple sources and each used a different code/logo/broadcast code/part number configuration. Some used stamped white printing while others used embossed print styles...bottom line don't get hung up on absolutes!
I can tell you that if I was still NCRS team leader for 1970-1972, none of that red, white, and blue stuff would fly. The originals were black writing over a white background… Just like every other original oil filter used on Chevrolet engines during those years. You can’t convince me that Corvettes used a “special” oil filter on their engines and the rest of the car line used something else. The black/white filter itself was unique in that they were only used by the engine plants. It was a way to make sure that the oil/filter change intervals were being met by the customer.
In our revision of the 73/74 TIMJG (then twenty years old!), we make NO reference to the red, white, and blues but stick to continuity with the 70-72 NCRS TIMJG for oil filters (see attached).
When we got to the revision of the 75-77 TIMJG (also twenty years old), we clarify the transition from the white base to that of blue PF-25s (see attached). We studied engineering documents for both the oil and air filters to draw these conclusions and attempted to nuance the transition periods but worked to avoid absolutes. It makes field judges work harder to get their judging assessment consistent with that which is typical for the build date code.
Note Rowdy's observation from above:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Rat
Pssst… You do know that the aftermarket reproduces belts, hoses, AND black/white oil filters (all to varying degrees of accuracy)?
Last edited by hunt4cleanair; Jan 4, 2022 at 03:17 AM.
Reason: add reference to aftermarket perishables
Seriously??? I bought my Corvette years ago because it was the car I always wanted. Still is.
worried about losing points over an oil filter?
Really?
Man you must lead some sort of special life to get concerned over something like this.
Seriously??? I bought my Corvette years ago because it was the car I always wanted. Still is.
worried about losing points over an oil filter?
Really?
Man you must lead some sort of special life to get concerned over something like this.
So you are dissing the OP because he is extremely passionate about his Corvette? A passion that you can't understand or relate to? Hopefully you'll find some happiness today.
What I find is that judges with limited experience default to absolutes and when looking at these perishable items...factory practice was anything but absolute. I could go into detail with fan belts and show how the factory used multiple sources and each used a different code/logo/broadcast code/part number configuration. Some used stamped white printing while others used embossed print styles...bottom line don't get hung up on absolutes!
In our revision of the 73/74 TIMJG (then twenty years old!), we make NO reference to the red, white, and blues but stick to continuity with the 70-72 NCRS TIMJG for oil filters (see attached).
When we got to the revision of the 75-77 TIMJG (also twenty years old), we clarify the transition from the white base to that of blue PF-25s (see attached). We studied engineering documents for both the oil and air filters to draw these conclusions and attempted to nuance the transition periods but worked to avoid absolutes. It makes field judges work harder to get their judging assessment consistent with that which is typical for the build date code.
Note Rowdy's observation from above:
Tom, thanks for posting the pages from the NCRS guide!
I have the 73-74 but not the new 75-77. I'm hoping you can help clear something up for me.
I had been confused since the latest edition of the 73-74 guide came out, about the changeover from white to blue filters. The 73-74 guide simply states that blue filters were not used. However I read an article in the NCRS Restorer (circa 2006) with a filter timeline. That article suggested that by late (Sep) 74 the Blue Foil Label filter would be expected to be in use. Furthermore I have several NOS blue foil label filters in 1974 boxes that would suggest the blue foil label filter was available in '74.
I see that alot of this is covered in the 75-77 judging guide. But I am still confused as to why the 73-74 guide disagrees with the earlier Restorer article.
For example the the engineering change from white to blue/foil was executed 6 months before end of 74 production, but the guide does not mention this.
Conversely the change from foil to paper label was executed only 4 months before the guide accepts that January 76 cars would have the paper not the foil and a mix in-between those dates.
This seems inconsistent to me. I would expect from the information in the old Restorer article and the new 75-77 guide that Late 74 cars could have either style of filter.
Any insight you (or anyone else) has into this would be appreciated. Thanks!
So you are dissing the OP because he is extremely passionate about his Corvette? A passion that you can't understand or relate to? Hopefully you'll find some happiness today.
no. we are dissing the NCRS for deducting points for a CONSUMABLE ITEM!! if you do not replace the oil filter, the warranty will be voided. do they test the gas and make sure it has the correct amount of tetraethyl lead?
no. we are dissing the NCRS for deducting points for a CONSUMABLE ITEM!! if you do not replace the oil filter, the warranty will be voided. do they test the gas and make sure it has the correct amount of tetraethyl lead?
Corvette are judged at the NCRS is as the Corvette left the dealer after normal dealers prep. Plus no owner or dealer inspired options. So any item that was installed whether consumable or not must appear as the original. If you look around at any other originality judging platform it is the same.
I see that alot of this is covered in the 75-77 judging guide. But I am still confused as to why the 73-74 guide disagrees with the earlier Restorer article. For example the engineering change from white to blue/foil was executed 6 months before end of 74 production, but the guide does not mention this. Conversely the change from foil to paper label was executed only 4 months before the guide accepts that January 76 cars would have the paper not the foil and a mix in-between those dates. This seems inconsistent to me. I would expect from the information in the old Restorer article and the new 75-77 guide that Late 74 cars could have either style of filter.
What makes you think the Restorer article is accurate? I'm curious who authored the article and see what it has to say.
Any insight you (or anyone else) has into this would be appreciated. Thanks!
Can you scan the article, create a pdf and post it here? I'll add that we had access to GM engineering documents for the 75-77 TIMJG that we did not have for the 73-74 TIMJG. The judging guidance for 75-77 simply stat\es that "A white filter is atypical on a 75-77."
I'm NOT giving the guy the business for having a passion for Corvettes. A passion we All have here. That's why were here.
I am however giving him the business over worrying about such a minor thing. That in no way could possibly effect the enjoyment of driving his beautiful vintage car.
The NCRS crowd deserves a bit of a payout from time to time.
As stated, A consumable part that in 50 years would have been changed 75 times or more.
And yes they want belts and brake lines and radiator hoses with the correct markings. And No one other than other NCRS people will ever notice the difference.
In no way does this affect the passion we have for our cars.
But some of us really would rather put on the highest quality oil filter. And appearance be damned.
no. we are dissing the NCRS for deducting points for a CONSUMABLE ITEM!! if you do not replace the oil filter, the warranty will be voided. do they test the gas and make sure it has the correct amount of tetraethyl lead?
No that would be silly, they only test the air in the tires to ensure its original.
72 NCRS correct oil filter
with Stan. But we were not the majority to approve the change to the black and white filter. I for one believed the reason for the black and white was used as Stan pointed out for Warranty. The other was cost a simple black and white finish. The cost for the white, red and blue may be just a few cents per filter, but multiply that by the millions produced as the PF25 was used on so many GM vehicles. Plus the white, red and blue filter looked better when an owner was buying one to be installed at oil change time. Advertising at its best.
