Hey guys, who's making tri-Y headers that fit our 'vettes now that Stan has retired and is no longer making them?

Scotty

 

Wow. Too bad Stan's is gone. I heard his retirement was coming but didn't expect the business to just end. The website is down and I found an auction site listing his shop equipment. I did find an obscure comment on one forum the other day that said one or two of Stan's former employees had purchased some of the equipment and jigs to continue making some of the headers but no indication if that included the Tri-y design.

https://murphyauction.com/Auction/Details/8465

Thanks to Stan for all he did for our hobby!

DC

 

Stan has closed up shop? I'm sorry to hear that. I have a set of his ceramic coated Tri-Y headers on my car. Fit perfectly. The lady I ordered them from said if I would wear it she would send me a T-shirt. I have kept my promise.

Nothing stays the same

 

So, nobody knows of a source for tri-Y headers that will fit a sbc C3? Understandable, actually, I've looked and looked, can't seem to find any either. Does anybody know of a car model that headers made for that car will also fit a C3 Corvette? Like a cross-reference?

Scotty

 

Hopefully someone will know how to contact Stan's former employees that purchased some of his equipment and gigs. Maybe they bought the Tri-Y stuff too or would be interested in doing so if there is enough of a market. I'd keep searching the internet for someone who knows. Or maybe, contact the auction house I linked to in my previous post and see if they have any contact information.

Stan's email was: Stan Fuller <stan@stansheaders.com>

Maybe he's still answering it?

Here's one from one of his employees who helped me with invoices: Anne Ebenhoeh <anne@stans-headers.com>


DC

 

I will be watching this thread with interest for any further information - - -

I might add that I have been in Stan’s facility a few times (Auburn, WA /Seattle) as I live in the area.
I have a set of Stan’s SBC Tri-Y’s on my C3.
Rumor is that Doug Thorley got his start with Stan - I don’t know if this is true?
Doug Thorley also makes Tri-Y Headers - C2 / C3 applications are NOT listed on their sight.
If the Stan’s Employees don’t get the headers produced, maybe Thorley might be a source?
It really all comes down to “the numbers” how many will the Corvette-Community buy?
20 to 30 Sets a Year may not keep a manufacture interested?
Remember the last C2 (1967) was produced over a half century ago, 55-years ago.
Remember the last C3 (1982) was produced 40-years ago.

 

Doug Thorley makes tri-Y headers!

Well..I checked and could not find any to fit a C3.

 

Can i ask why you specifically want the tri-Y? If its for scavenge purposes, then check out American Racing. They make a C3 header, (SB, BB, LS swap) in a few sizes, and though its not a true 4-2-1 design, it looks a better flowing header than the ones in the pic above. They have merge collectors, which is the same basic idea as a tri-Y. Not sure if they specifically tune the size/shape for what you have though. For the $1340 they're asking, i'd hope they do.

 

Id give Dougs in So Cal a call. Is Thorley his ex wifes company? Heard in their divorce one of them kept the Thorley name, the other was "dougs".
Nice quality. Is Stahl stans gig?
shame these guys are going away...guess biz would be dying off as youngsters arent buying older American cars...and hunt for cheap ebay stuff for theri lil zipper cars.

Always wanted to fab up my own set of headers but cant weld worth a crap.

 

I'm just now learning about Stan's closure... ;-(

On the Doug's / Thourley's my understanding is that the husband and wife split the company in two in the divorce proceedings.
I only remember them selling side-exit tri-ys and I don't remember them selling any rear exit tri-y headers, which would mean that there aren't any TRI-Y rear exit headers for C3s any more.... ;-(

All Stan's stock appeared to go for sale @ the Murphy's auction in March by the pictures... Wish whoever bought all the old stock would start putting it up on Ebay some C3 folks could get a good deal on a great-fitting C3 header...


Adam

 

I was contacted by a guy named Bruce Reed out here in Federal Way, Washington who worked for Stan’s from 1987 to 2019 who has purchased the fixtures for the C3 Corvette #109Y.

Still trying to find out whether he’s going to start making them again including possibly in stainless, but the door is cracking open again that someone might keep making at least the C3 Tri-Ys…


Adam

 

Good to know. If you make contact with Bruce again, ask him if he's aware that Stan redesigned the header to work with both the Borgeson steering box and the factory box. Hopefully, he bought the fixtures for both the old and new design.

Here's a thread I started about the redesign: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-steering.html

I like the idea of a stainless version of Stan's Tri-Y.

DC

 

I remember that thread well.
Bruce is the one that made those changes to the fixture and he has the ONLY fixture for the Stans Tri-Y headers that does incorporate those changes.

Bruce has got a pretty big backup of orders to get through, but he's currently making headers through his new business "Brew's Customs". He said for anyone looking to place an order or with questions, you can message him via Facebook Messenger (Bruce Reed in Federal Way, Washington) or email @ brewscustoms@gmail.com OR call and leave a message at 253-334-1694.


Bruce has cautioned that the raw materials costs for Stainless tubing have gone up almost 3x in the past 18-24 months.

He also said that if anyone wanted to organize a "group buy" and buy 10 sets at once, that he could get a discount on the stainless tubing and could provide a discount...



Adam

 

This provides a good opportunity for me to talk about one of my favorite crack-pot theories about something. I think the tri-y header is an attempt to stop the exhaust flow from the #5 and #7 cylinders from interfering with each other, and the #8 and #4 cylinders from interfering with each other. (the #7 cylinder blows down 90 degrees after the #5 cylinder, and the #4 cylinder blows down 90 degrees after the #8 cylinder) If we take this concept to the extreme, we could, in theory, have a set of headers where each collector is fed by the front and rear cylinder on one side of the engine, and the center two cylinders from the other side of the engine. One collector is fed by cylinders 1, 4, 6, and 7, while the other collector is fed by cylinders 2, 3, 5, and 8. Easier said than done, as it would require two primaries from each side of the engine to cross under the engine to join the collector on the other side. Let's say it's the center two cylinders on each side, it just seems like it would be easier to deal with that way. Anyway, what this would accomplish would be to have each collector receive an exhaust pulse precisely every 180 degrees of engine rotation, as long as all the primaries were equal length, which would add even more difficulty to an already complicated setup. (Talk about a "bundle of snakes", sheesh!) I don't even know what effect, if any, this would have on the engine's power characteristics, but it's interesting to think about from an engineering point of view. I actually got the idea from looking at how a dual plane intake manifold works. I'd love to hear what you guys who know a thing or two about how headers work think about it.

Scotty

 

If you were to read up on header science tuned tube diameter and length for CI/HP level. Adding complexity is for those trying to get the last Oz of power out. The modern merge collector is one best science ideas to come about.

But if you really understand what is going on even with the best of the best it can really get ruined by using a full length exhaust system. The best headers tuned only work at their best when they vent to the atmosphere at the end of the collector extension.

You have to have big 3 inch with X or H pipes with free flowing mufflers to make a street system work. NO back pressure...

tri-y are a lower rpm broader TQ idea. You can accomplish lower rpm broader TQ curve with a smaller dia and longer primary tube a 4 into 2 into one collector. look online for them.

I also run a 4/7 swap cam which is supposed to help with the pulsing to a 4 into 1 like I have

 

I LOVE this subject!
I think you have a lot of the right ideas here.

One of the goals is to allow the exhaust to escape at as high of a velocity as it can for as much of the RPM range as it can -this makes the exhaust "pull" as strong as it can for as wide of an RPM range as it can. When you have multiple cylinders dumping exhaust at the same time you have to make the pipe or the collector bigger to accomodate the max volume but then you're unnecessarily killing off the velocity at other times. Calvin Elston the Tri-Y "header king" responsible for the headers on many winning NASCAR teams in the 90's calls this concept the "blowdown length" of your exhaust system -the "game" / goal is to push the exhaust during the high pressure early "Blowdown" part of the exhaust cycle (technically during the combustion phase) as far away from the head and exhaust valve as you can get it -this makes the pressure drop fast but also gets the big exhaust mass "slug" far away from the exhaust valve so that reversion is less likely as it has to travel backwards much further to dilute the cylinder mixture or run backwards through the open intake valve. (All those "steps" in pipe size and the constant step that is the megaphone section of most merge collectors after the "choke" slow down the exhaust gases, so it's harder for them to reverse and flow backwards as far as they came from. Cool trick -make the exhaust flow outward FAST, then slow it down so that it is very hard for it to travel backwards and create reversion in the cylinder -but it does still have "localized reversion" / travel backwards for a while.)

The 180 degree headers, zoomies, and flat plane crank engines all allow you to have just one pipe evacuating the exhaust from the cylinder so they can be and usually are much smaller vs. a cross plane crank 4:1 exhaust header collector; Tri-Ys also provide this benefit until they reach the first Y and then have to expand (very much like a 4:1 stepped header in that regard) -the cylinders are paired together based upon the firing order so that they're not pumping exhaust gas into a pipe at the same time and I think the exhaust slug rushing past the first Y junction might even provide some suction down it's adjoining primary pipe.(Note: If you do a 4-7 or LS firing order cam swap, you need a completely different custom TRI-Y header specific for your firing order; there's a flexibility benefit to merge collectors...)

Like George said, race-style "Merge" collectors that reduce the collector volume just after the merge point (and often have a megaphone just after in a pretty obvious venturi) also help increase exhaust VELOCITY and provide many of the same benefits.

Another primary benefit of both Tri-Y and merge collector headers is that they actually ATTENUATE the exhaust pulses. -Rather than focusing on "TUNING" the pulses and helping the exhaust velocity and flow using tuning waves, they actually act more like a diode trying to make the exhaust flow outward and resist inward flow and backwards flow of the exhaust pulses. -This might make them produce "lower highs" in the torque peak due to exhaust wave tuning, but they definitely produce "lower lows" and you don't see those torque dips on either side of tuned RPMs. -This is one of the two reasons why a benefit of TRI-Ys is often explained as "propping up lower RPM torque" (the faster velocity makes for reduced reversion AND you don't have the big negative dip from the tuning wave happening at the worst possible time and dilluting the cylinder with exhaust gas as much.) -If you've got a slightly bigger head then required for your engine size and RPM and a step too big of a cam a high velocity header like a TRI-Y or a Merge collector can be particularly useful and are a "good pairing".

TRI-Ys also are all essentially "stepped headers" after each Y, you see the inside diameter step up a size at each Y junction -that helps to keep the average velocity high while also not limiting upper RPM HP because you're not carrying a smaller and more restrictive inside diameter for very long (except in old TRI-Y designs that carry those smaller pipe diameters too long; then you get more air-friction losses and limit upper RPM capability.).


Most TRI-Ys are very old designs that seem to be mimicking traditional 4:1 header primary lengths -the long, smallish lengths WILL limit upper RPM HP. I think the most often repeated myth about TRI-Ys is that there's something in their innate nature that just limits upper HP RPM, which makes sense when you see all these small ID super long TRI-Ys. Look at Circle Track headers: it's a space where you need BOTH great throttle response and mid-range torque to accelerate out of the corners but you also need to preserve upper RPM HP. Tri-Y headers are at the top of the recommendation list from folks like Hendren Racing / Crate Insider who's opinions "loom large" in circle track racing. They've dyno tested all their headers on 602 and 604 crate engines and have found that the Tri-Ys from ProFab are so efficient that there is no benefit from adding the anti-reversion chambers that you often see placed just after a 4:1 collector on Circle Track cars. (Those 4:1s need to be "crutched" with anti-reversion chambers to prop up low RPM torque that results from reversion.) -Checkout ProFab,and Schoenfeld to see what good high RPM capable TRI-Ys look like -OR checkout Calvin Elston "Exhausted's" posted TRI-Y header pictures posted to Speed-talk.com for TRI-Y "header ****". -Then compare those to an older lower RPM design like Stan's for our C3s... (More VE across more of the curve = more average horse-torques.)

Calvin Elston's famous quote is that properly designed TRI-Ys can produce more average torque and HP across an engine's curve up to 8,500 RPM, but that at 8,500 RPM the lengths of each header section need to be so short that they can't physically be fabricated.

TRI-Ys also seem to be more "finicky" than 4:1s (whether merge or not) and getting those lengths right is tricky business.

PipeMax is a program that is primarily focused on taking all the header voodoo magic and turning it into a formula that spits out recommendations. Up until their more recent major revision, they did not spit out recommendations for TRI-Ys, but they now provide recommendations even for TRI-Ys. Burns stainless who sells $$$$ merge collectors AND TRI-Y merge parts has a proprietary formula that they'll run on your engine combo only after you commit to purchasing your header parts from them -that WOULD require you to build your own header or work with someone to build you a custom header, though...

Read anything / everything you can find from Calvin Elston (who pulled down his blog, unfortunately) and Burns Stainless for some great header voodoo science. David Vizard's article on a "lossless" full length exhaust system is also relevant, but Gkull already distilled the "recipe" in his post. (large volume wave termination boxes at a tuned length with a traditional 4:1 and then very high flow, zero backpressure components after that).

Note: A high velocity exhaust system built upon a tri-y or a merge collector may require a different cam to avoid over scavenging and pulling lots of fuel out the exhaust. Or with advanced port EFI you can run big injectors and "open valve injection" avoiding spraying fuel during overlap...

For a drag race engine with a very narrow RPM band required between peak torque and peak HP, TRI-Ys are a "waste". For circle track and street engines that require broad RPM curve TRI-Ys and merge collector headers seem like great things.
P.S. There are ZERO C3 Corvette TRI-Y "Shelf headers" that are designed to support even a 6,000 RPM HP peak with rear exit exhaust (the Stan's I think are in the 5,000-5,500 RPM range depending upon the rest of your combo); Doug's / Thorley's have a side-exit tri-y for C3s, but from what I remember it was a VERY large primary ID, and there's only one shelf header with merge collectors: American Racing.

Adam

 

FWIW, this was posted elsewhere yesterday by Bruce Reed

"FYI, if anybody has been looking for Tyi-Y headers for the C3 Corvette I have the fixtures and am the original designer of the 109Y from Stan’s Headers. All modifications thru the years were made by me as I worked there from 1987 until 2019 when I went out in my own to pursue my business i started in 2016, Brews Customs LLC.

M

 

Glad Sean let him join over there and make the announcement! -I connected Sean and Bruce to see if he'd be able to join and make an announcement under the rules over there.


Adam

 

… from Facebook.

 

By his own account, Bruce was no longer at Stan's when the modifications were made to accommodate the Borgeson gearbox. That's why I wanted to make certain Bruce received the tooling to make the final design.

DC