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No start issue with new mini torque starter

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Old Jun 3, 2022 | 01:03 PM
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Default No start issue with new mini torque starter

73 454. Shredded the starter gear on a start last fall and replaced with a cheap Napa starter to limp by the rest of the fall. New starter had what I thought was hot start issues (would start fine then once I got anywhere after driving, it would not turn over until it would cool for about 30-40min). Put it in storage for the winter and decided to order a CVR mini torque starter to put in in the spring. New one has the R terminal so was what I thought would be a pretty straightforward install. Installed and don't even get a click or anything on while turning the ignition.

Battery is good (new last fall and charged up on a battery charger). Wires cleaned up and greased with some dielectric.

Not sure where to go from here as this is the first car I've ever worked on. Have paged through the Haynes service manual and the Tom Wilson How to Rebuild Your Big Block books and searched for old threads here but still looking for some direction.

Short video below of how I have it wired up. Kind of hoping I'm just an idiot and have an obvious wiring error that is easily addressed.

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Old Jun 3, 2022 | 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by durinsbane
73 454. Shredded the starter gear on a start last fall and replaced with a cheap Napa starter to limp by the rest of the fall. New starter had what I thought was hot start issues (would start fine then once I got anywhere after driving, it would not turn over until it would cool for about 30-40min). Put it in storage for the winter and decided to order a CVR mini torque starter to put in in the spring. New one has the R terminal so was what I thought would be a pretty straightforward install. Installed and don't even get a click or anything on while turning the ignition.

Battery is good (new last fall and charged up on a battery charger). Wires cleaned up and greased with some dielectric.

Not sure where to go from here as this is the first car I've ever worked on. Have paged through the Haynes service manual and the Tom Wilson How to Rebuild Your Big Block books and searched for old threads here but still looking for some direction.

Short video below of how I have it wired up. Kind of hoping I'm just an idiot and have an obvious wiring error that is easily addressed.
This (hot start) issue on these cars is normally wiring related and not the starter at all. I know you checked wiring but you likely have a bad ground or corroded terminal to wire connections somewhere. might even be a fuseable link. Have you checked the voltage at the starter? also the newer starters do get wired a bit differently if I remember right. (google is the best way to find diagrams.)
My uncle learned this same lesson the hard way on his c3, As did I on another vehicle years ago. I also had an ignition switch get shifted and mispositioned on the column which caused this behavior.

Last edited by augiedoggy; Jun 3, 2022 at 01:23 PM.
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Old Jun 3, 2022 | 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by augiedoggy
Have you checked the voltage at the starter? also the newer starters do get wired a bit differently if I remember right. (google is the best way to find diagrams.)
It's testing 12.7V on the big post. Not getting readings from the smaller contact. Going to check and make sure I don't have the S and R terminal swapped...
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Old Jun 3, 2022 | 03:49 PM
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I used to have a "Hot Start" issue with my 427 while running high compression. It was bad enough that I took my starter to a shop and had them make it have a bit more power and that still didn't help. I was told that my starter was "Heat Soaked" and that it needed to be shaded from the heat producing areas on the engine. I have long tube headers so that was not very easy to do. They sell heat shields to protect the starters and that might be an option by itself. I tried to wrap my starter in the heat wrap material used on headers, it just held more heat inside.
Using a factory starter my engine turned over more slowly when it was hot after usage in traffic. I finally bought a MSD Digital Retard Box that allowed me to pull the engine's timing back while cranking. If the timing is too advanced this to will load up the starter and make it work harder. By pulling 20* of timing while cranking the starter spun the engine much easier and faster. When the engine "starts" the timing returned back to normal after reaching 400 rpm.

Today many aftermarket Ignition boxes offer this option and even my new Holley EFI system has provisions to do this. With the timing pulled back the engine cranks like a normal cold engine. After adding a Gear Driver Starter the engine cranks even faster with the timing pulled back. The combination of both is the best solution for a hot engine trying to crank.

Die-electric grease does not improve or help your electrical connections. Remove it and clean it from the contact surfaces and then make the connection again. Using it on top of the connection can slow down corrosion. I have seen people use it on the spark plug boots and it helps the boot from getting stuck to the wire's cap but if you put it on the part of the wire that connects to the spark plug it actually inhibits the spark from getting to the plug. I generally prefer to use battery grease and cover connections with it to keep the corrosion under control. Die-electric grease is not to be used inside connections. This can actually keep your engine from starting if too much was put into the Spark Plug caps.

IF you put Die-electric grease in between the surfaces of the battery and it's cables you are hurting the connection. Clean the connection and re-connect the battery without Die-Electric grease to have a good solid connection. To keep it free of corrosion then you can put either battery grease or Die-electric grease on top of the connection, JUST NOT BETWEEN the connecting surfaces. The only negative to using battery grease on a car is that dirt and dust can get stuck to the grease.
Here is a quote I found regarding Die-electric grease: "What is dielectric grease? Despite the fact it has "electric" right there in the name, it's a fairly common misconception that dielectric grease is capable of conducting electricity. In actual fact, dielectric grease is an insulator and doesn't conduct electricity."

Good Luck and I hope that this helps you a little with your Starter issues.
Best Regards,
Chris

I use a material known as DeOxIt to clean the surfaces free from corrosion. I use it on old light bulb contacts to clean them, afterwards the bulb gets more power and shines brighter. Any contact that is old and dirty would benefit from DeOxIt. It is a great contact cleaner and leaves a residual material that maintains the connection at its best.
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Old Jun 3, 2022 | 05:17 PM
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Thanks for the comprehensive response. Turns out it was a bit simpler than all this. I had my S and R wires mixed up. I had labeled my wires with colored electric tape when I pulled everything out so that I could match it up on the new starter. My blue wire was the S and I ended up connecting it to the R terminal on the new starter because the wire housing on the starter's R terminal was coated in blue rubber. I must've just gotten distracted and ended up just matching blue to blue even though it was the wrong terminal. Was supposed to do blue to R term not blue to blue haha.

I feel like an idiot but also glad that I don't have something more serious to hunt down... yet... The engine reved through the start and then died immediately. I started it a few times to get the gear paint marked. Pulled it out again to check the alignment and saw the marks go all the way down the valley of the gear tooth, so shimmed and reinstalled. Went to connect the battery and sparked started flying and ended up trashing the threads on the battery terminal bolts. I have the side mount terminals on this battery and they are simply the worst to connect because of the tight quarters of the battery box. Onto the next set of issues but at least I can rule some things out.
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