Having issues with start. Just installed a new CVR mini torque starter and can get car to turn over but it dies after key is turned to run. I have 12v coming through the + terminal on the starter but nothing at the r terminal. Doing lots of digging and seeing a lot of info that this is most likely due to a bad resistor wire. I am not having any luck finding anywhere where I can buy a replacement, only people saying they're rewiring with normal wire and adding a ballast resistor patched in before the coil. Wondering 1. where I can get a new resistor wire and 2. how I go about replacing it. Do I need to pull the panel under the steering column and fish wire through to the coil or is there an easier connection point from coil to somewhere accessible in the engine bay?

 

IIRC The R terminal should only have power when the starter is engaged (cranking), that's the resistance bypass to give extra juice to the coil during starting. The resistance wire went on the one from the coil to the bulkhead

Echlin still sells a resistance wire, part number ICR22
Whether or not that's your issue is a different thing but you can buy that at NAPA if you're still running points

M

 

As Mooser said the 'R' terminal will only have power with the key in the start and the starter spinning.

The 'S' terminal will only have power with the key in the START position.
With the key in RUN do you have power to the coil + terminal?

 

No power to the coil with the key in run, however I did see some very faint smoke starting to come up from somewhere near the coil/distributor, which I'm guessing is the resistor wiring burning up.

 

I think this is what I'm looking for as I am still on point, thanks! any reason why it would say "doesn't fit your year/model/make"?

 

you can get by with a regular wire for short term. just DO NOT turn on the key without starting the car. as Mooser and the Kenworth guy said, the R terminal is actually energized by the starter itself. the solenoid hammer pushes a big washer against the 2 big terminals to fire the starter. there is another little contact which takes straight 12 volts from that washer and feeds it to the coil to bypass the resistor wire. and using a MoPed ballast resistor is not the worst thing that you can do...

 

Call Echlin at 1-800-538-6272 and ask if ECH LW67 is the correct resistor wire for your '73 454.

Check that the points are not welded together and set to .019
Disconnect the resistor wire from the coil and temporally jumper 12 volts directly to the coil and see if the car will stay on.
Remove the jumper after the test.

 

That one is more of a generic one that can usually be found at the local supply houses and made to work, I believe the LW67 that perterbuilt references is the correct part number if you can get one (ok apparently it might not be ??)
EDIT: yeah that's the one that goes to the starter and not the resistance wire.


And don't run it too long with the full 12v hooked to the coil
M

 

Will try the jump test as a next step. When I was fiddling around with it I couldn't find my jump box so didn't get to that when I had time yesterday. I believe the ECH LW67 part is the lead wire though and not the resistor. I believe there are two wires stacked on top of each other at the + terminal on the coil, and the resistor wire is the cloth wrapped one, this looks like the other. Could be wrong as I am new to all this.

 

No that's right and there are two wires on that post
The cloth wrapped one is the resistor wire that goes to the bulkhead, should provide 9-ish volts with the key in the run position
The other one is the one that goes to the starter and provides a full 12-ish volts while cranking to help get the car going
Disconnect the resistance wire at the coil and test it by itself for voltage with the key in run position
M

 

You can purchase some 135 OHM wire and put your own terminals on it.

 

You sure about that? I thought resistor wire is rated by length, so pretty sure you can't just buy "135 ohm wire". Trying to find a new resistor wire seems like a fool's errand at this point, so I think I am just going to go 14ga with a ceramic ballast resistor.

 

No! I'm not sure about where to buy it, It is shown on the schematic, maybe you can contact Lars or 69427 and see if they can find the wire for you.

I have not replaced that wire so I never looked for one before.

Will you have time to do the 'tests' over the weekend?

Pete.

 

I spent a solid hour looking online trying to find any trace of where to get a resistor wire and had no luck, even found a number of old forum posts from 10-15 years ago with people saying the same "can't seem to find these anywhere". I'm thinking about the hotwire coil test but I don't have a spare battery sitting around and don't think the jumper box I have would work bc it's "smart". I'm going to be working on it tomorrow morning and first thing I'll be checking is whether I can see any burned up bits of the wire as I did see some faint smoke coming up from somewhere near the coil when I had the key in run. I can only see about 2 inches of the wire right now and then it's lost under the wiper motor and through the firewall.

 

You can pick up 12 volts positive from the battery connection on the back of the alternator.
Just be careful not to ground that connection out or we'll have more problems.

 

Got it running again. It was indeed the resistor wire that was bad. Wired up a ballast resistor with 14g heat resistant auto wire and zip tied it to the existing shroud and it dropped straight down to the starter. I was mistaken about it having to feed through the fire wall, so it turned out to be a pretty easy job.

 

Respectfully, you lost me. The coil C+ feed wire with resistance in it goes inside the car to the ignition switch. The non-resistor wire goes to the starter R terminal. I'm interpreting your post here that you have wired it up differently.

Help me out here. Thanks.

 

I'm completely lost then too but maybe I just got lucky with my ignorance or have a ticking time bomb under the hood now... To get it running, I ran a new wire from R-terminal to + terminal on the coil with the ballast resistor in between. I thought that the resistor wire was the cloth covered one that was crimped with the yellow wire on the + coil terminal, and I followed it to the shroud directly down to the starter, so I guess I just assumed it went directly from coil to starter. I didn't want to mess up the connection of the yellow wire, so instead of splitting out the resistor wire, I left it there and added a new connector on the + coil and wired it down to the starter. The wire that I had wired up to the R terminal before the fix was also a cloth covered pink wire, so I assumed it was the other end of what was connected to the + coil. My plan was to just leave it there and cap it off and connect the new one. I did that and it started great and stayed running with key in run.

What I don't understand is that I was getting the car to turn over in start before I made this change but it just wouldn't stay running in run, so why would rewiring the R terminal connection do anything to fix that like it did? Is it possible that it would have still fired up without the R terminal connected essentially? And if so, does this mean I just have an unnecessary ballast resistor wired in that I can remove?

 

Hi again,
Didn't think you would be back so soon with that reply.
Let's start over, tell us what made you change the starter in the first place,
Is the new starter wired up correctly?



There should be a BLACK ground wire connected to a bell housing or starter bolt NOT to the positive starter terminal.



With the resistor wire disconnected from the coil connect a voltmeter and post the volts here with the key in ON, START, and RUN.

If NO volts in any position call your Chiropractor for an appointment and locate the ignition switch and make sure the screws holding it to the column are not loose.
Then turn the KEY switch and see if the rod moves the switch.

The R wire from the starter, the one you spliced into, where does the other end connect to?
Then remove it for now.

 

Yeah, you don't want a resistor in that circuit. It defeats its reason for existence. The R terminal circuit is there mostly for vehicles that are driven in the winter. During cold cranking, the battery voltage drops noticeably from what it is in warm weather. With a lower voltage at the vehicle electrical bus, there's not enough current to sufficiently charge the coil with the ballast resistor in the circuit. The R teminal shunts the ballast resistor, so that the coil gets the sufficient current even though the voltage is less. If your car is a summer toy the R terminal should not be necessary.

Back to the basics: With the points open or the ballast wire disconnected from the coil C+, do you have 12v with the key on? And, what is the (still disconnected) ballast wire voltage during cranking?