Hi all,

I need some help (again! Lol) figuring out what’s going on with why my new engine is no longer running. The new engine had been running fine once I got it in the car and wired up. The initial symptoms acted like it was missing and continued to get worse over time. The engine has a newer hei distributor (Eckler’s $160 unit bought a while back). In my Sherlock Holming I noticed that the instructions for my fan controller (last new thing installed) said not to run its ignition wire from the same source as the distributor which is exactly what I did. Evidently it can cause issues with the ecm, etc. I had a spare ecm, installed it, but no difference, not sure it’s a good one though. So, I ordered and received a new ecm today from napa, installed it, still no difference. I’m getting some indication of ignition but only a rare pop now and then, so pretty sure it’s got power (distro) and I’ve checked it was my meter and it’s got 12 volts. I also tested the coil as seen on YouTube video and it tests out ok. I double checked the distro’s orientation to plug wires and it’s correct (my engine builder set initial to 6*, I set it to 8*).

I have my old points distributor that I want to try but my new higher torque starter does not have the post for the resistance wire to run the points distributor. Can I just add the resistance wire to the battery post, or do I need to perform some other magic to make that happen?

Your help as always is much appreciated.

Regards

 

You will not need the wire on the 'R' terminal.
The mini starter draws less current.

ECM? Are you working on your '73?

 

Hey Peterbuilt,

Yes, I'm working on my 73! The R terminal was for the point distro as I understand it and I wanted to put my old points distro back in for a test but it's supposed to run on lower voltage (ie., 9 vlts?) vs the 12 that I've got hooked up currently. I didn't want to monkey up my original points distro by putting 12 volts to it and burning something up. ECM, in HEI vernacular is the control module in the disto.

 

Just put the points "distro or disto" back in and see what happens. It won't hurt to run it without the resistor for a short time.

 

Did you change out both the coil and the control module on the HEI?

Yes, the points distributor used a BLACK/PINK resistor wire, is that wire hanging loose somewhere under the hood?

Original starter wire connections:



Same schematic as in '73.

 

Peterbuilt,
Yes I'm Leaving the factory wires in place so I have the wires tied back by the starter and up by the distributor.
I only changed the control module. The coil tested out okay.
That picture looks like my old starter motor with the extra post for the resistor wire.

 

You said it was missing and got worse over time.
Have you pulled a valve cover to see if anything got loose?
Have you double checked that you were on TDC on #1 cylinder as you placed the distributor in place? It must be since the car ran.
A compression test might be worthwhile.

Yes! That's an original starter, your new starter doesn't need or have the 'R' wire so just tape the wire off.

 

Lots of HEI ignition modules need 12-12.5 volts to function. Throw a timing light on it and see if you have spark at the right time.

 

Thanks Stormin.
Yeah, my engine builder stopped by yesterday, he put a timing light on it, said its got weak spark and plugs are bad, gas soaked. It's got new module and coil tested OK. Ordered correct plugs today. We'll see what happens with the new plugs.

 

I got the new, correct NGK spark plugs for these Dart heads but am still chasing down other issues as noted below

"My engine started running erratically and then finally failed and wouldn’t start. My engine builder came over and we worked on it again making sure distributor was in the correct position and initial timing was set correctly. It still would not start. Then to make thing worse the starter would not engage, it just clicked. I pulled it and tried to bench test with my spare battery but no go. Thinking it might be the solenoid I removed it and checked it out, looked ok to me. Finally, I took it to an Alt-Starter-Etc. shop and he put it on his test rig, and it fired right up, pinion shot out and spun freely. He smiled and said that’ll be $35, lol. He suggested to hook it up like he did with a known good battery and short the S lead to power which I did, pinion fired out and spun freely like it did in his shop!

So, what the heck is going on here?! I’ve read where the battery cables get old and deteriorate internally but these seemed to look ok to me other than where one of the PO’s cut into the insulation to access the copper wires and attach a small wire to but none of the cable’s wires looked broken (had been taped up).

My fix was to order replacement battery cables which I did from Rock Auto who had the best price ($61 all in, had to reuse the old gromets which were in good shape). Yesterday I spent most of the day under the car replacing battery cables. The negative lead was easiest of course and I cleaned the frame and reused the star washer as designed. The positive cable was a pita but amazingly got it up and over the trans/insulation and into the clamps. Reinstalled the starter and connected the battery cable to it to get the proper length. The only issue is the cable attachment end is a little long and made connecting it to the starter a bit challenging but it’s on there well.

My spare battery is a POS but the car’s battery is in pretty good nick. I’ve also learned that the battery cable connections in the battery box should be facing towards the rear vs. front which is how it was and made it harder to connect the cables and accessory wires.

These new wires come with pigtail wires hanging down from the connector housing which I’m guessing are for accessories? If so, how are you supposed to connect them, it looks like a crimp type connector? I have been using adapters that replace the cable screws and have a 3/8” thread/nut on the outside where I connect my acc wires. I had to shave one of the adapters to get it to fit and it looks like it’s blackened where it connects to the battery!? What caused that I wonder?


Negative cable where insulation was removed and where I cut it to remove gromet.

New cables in battery box

Cables showing pigtail wires

Blackened adapter

Blackened adapter #2

 

Another update,

I got my new adapters for the battery cables today and got them installed on the new cables. I tried to switch the battery around from how it was sitting (bat conns facing towards front) but there's only enough room for cables and not anything else without fidgeting things around if you need to get access after-the-fact. So, I left the battery facing forward as the slant on the body panel behind the seats gives you more room/access to the connections.

And after the battery was connected, I tested the starter as the guy at the shop suggested and it engaged the flex plate just fine. I then wired everything back up and tested the starter via the ignition key and it too worked just fine. So tomorrow I will re-install the new spark plugs snug down the exhaust manifolds, reattach the plug wire and add trans fluid back (took out to solve leaking trans pan gasket, I'm trying gasket maker but also have a stripped thread in one or two pan holes to deal with! Always something with these cars, lol!)

 

Final Update:
Well, I got all the wiring back together on the car and once I primed the engine for oil and plugged the ignition power back on the distributor the engine immediately fired!

Hurrah! One more check box ticked.

BTW, my friend stopped by to deliver the modified shafts for the tubular upper control arms, and he took the old battery cables to recycle them and noticed that they were copper coated aluminum! I think the new ones I installed are all copper and a larger size as well (#2).