Hi, another issue...

I changed the oil the other day, went from 10/30 to 10/40 for the summer as usual, notice it used maybe half a quart in 1600 miles over the winter so I looked around.. The magnetic plug was really clean, have not opened the filter yet. The PCV valve was dripping with oil so I am looking at a catch can and I took the valve cover off to check the baffle. Pulled a few plugs to look for oil, #5 was a little dark but it always is, I'm pretty sure the valve seal is so-so, tiny puff at start up.. always been like that. Other thing I noticed is I have a slight miss at warm idle and the oil pressure gauge wiggles kind of in tune with it.. it's 45 at idle, up to 70 when driving. If I hold it at 1K rpms the pressure is steady because the miss is gone...this is a new thing...

But I have a squeak that increases with rpms, not constant but kind of like once an engine revolution. Took all the belts off, still there. It starts about a minute into warm up and fades as it starts to get hot and then is gone. It is coming from the front, can't find it anywhere up top with a long statoscope. I think I had the same thing a year ago, hard to remember and I did not log it. But it seems to be the same squeak only less pronounced.. at that time I thought it was the power steering pully hitting the frame because the pump sat crooked and I had trouble sliding a business card between them, I fixed that and new belts and have not heard it since.. but not this time...

Any Ideas... Harmonic balancer.?? What can squeak internally and still run ok?

Thanks
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So, I went and checked everything where I removed the valve cover, vacuum, electrical etc...made sure everything was good...and then I changed the oil again and went back to 10-30... Engine is running smoother, just the cam lope, and the oil pressure is steady and just where it was before I went with 10/40.... I am draining both filters to inspect for metal, nothing on the magnetic plug...

But it still squeaked until fairly warm and did not come back when Hot, engine runs strong with good pressure.... What the heck can be squeaking and why does it go away when hot??

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I guess I'm talking to myself here...LOL
So I'm pretty sure I found the issue, check out the pics... I've never seen a stock SBC rocker arm do that... And I found the piece by the oil drain of #7.... It broke clean off. I have not taken it off yet to check the top of the valve but there is no metal laying in the head....

Are all stock rockers arms the same, ratio and what ever...

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You are lucky that was a clean break. Yes, all the rockers are the same. When you replace it get the pivot ball also. Unusual failure , I've done that racing but never on the street. Good job tracking that down ! I bet there is no other damage, but check to see the keepers are in place.

 

Good save!

Are those stem guided rockers? How much cam is in it? Springs? Stock rockers can handle a lot....maybe time to ck them all and or upgrade maybe? But as I said...lots of roundy round guys just use stockers and scream all night.

JIM

 

Thats what they look like. I've never been a big fan of them, thats the failure point.

 

damn, thought ls1s did that

 

There was a poster on here a few years back that broke the other end of the rocker. Pushrod sticking right though. Come to find out, that pushrod was plugged.

I think I would pull each pushrod ONE AT A TIME, blow compressed air through, re install in the exact same spot again.
If you have a valve-spring compressor, I would install it at the bad rocker stud and test the spring to make sure the valve is not restricted in its guide. Somethings not right there. I have never seen a rocker get abused like that.

As a last thought, consider a set of Comp Cams Roller Tip Rockers. They are 1.52 ratio, tough as nails and reasonably priced.

 

UP,

Yes, I'm gonna make sure the push rod is true and will make sure it's open, I'll run it with the valve cover off to verify it's spinning and will check the oil flow of the others. A buddy said he has some used rockers so I'm gonna slap on one of those and make sure the noise is gone, I'm hoping this was the only issue but you never know til the fat lady sings.... I'm wondering if it was the valve being pushed at a steep angle into the guide and the noise went away after the oil got fully up to the head and coated the stem...Take a look at the pic, the rocker was pushing on the very edge of the valve stem, maybe it was pushing it towards the outside of the engine instead of straight up and down and the guide was making noise. It really sounded like a water pump bearing and I can't understand why the tip of the valve would make that screech.... Hope I'm wrong and I didn't wreck the valve guide....

I looked at those rockers, PRW makes a set also....lets see about the valve first.. The top has just a small mark you can hardly feel with your finger nail, it's towards the inside edge and I think away from the normal wear surface. I'm going to buff that area with fine crocus cloth and run it.

Thanks
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Stock length pushrods? And what heads are on it? Maybe need to run through a geometry ck on things?

JIM

 

Unless you took a bunch of rags or paper towels to mop up oil, your rockers and valves look dry. You sure you're getting oil up to like you're supposed to. Not an off the wall question either. I had a couple of lifters plug internally once, a long time ago. It roasted the associated rockers and dang if they didn't squeak like mice. They were the Comp roller tip type so they didn't break, but that's one experience I won't forget.

No oil up top, expect more squeaking.

 

For what its worth, I found Comps Roller-Tip rockers, used on EBay. Just about 2/3 the costs of new. Seller claimed he wanted to swap to a 1.6 rocker.
I was very skeptical about used ones. Threw the hardware away and bought new ball & nuts. That was years ago, and they are still running fine.
I am not a fan of using full roller rockers on the street. Really not needed. Roller tip removes the biggest issue of friction and that's at the valve tip.

 

Jim, you are probably right, honestly I don't know enough to do that and might have to trust the builder. It came with the car, Blue print Crate, 4 bolt, 355/325(maybe 310)HP, Iron heads, cam, headman long tube and true duals... Runs really strong and people comment all the time about how good it sounds. I don't remember the cam details-I have a printout in my files) but recall it being termed on the mild side...They termed the engine "The Budget Build" in 2017. I'll dig up the cam specs and post them later, right now I want to get it running and make sure the noise is gone..

Thanks,
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Yeah it looks that way from the pic, it was really wet in there when I took the valve cover off, I had just shut it down, The engine is really clean and drains quick, there are puddles by the drains, the rockers are still slick with little puddles on the tips and under the ball... I tried a different pic/light. I plan to run it without the valve cover, I normally make a cardboard shield but a buddy gave me a set of those oil deflector clips I'm going to try. Car last ran around the 1st, pic was 3-4 days later

A little engine history, I got this from a guy who like flashy cars but knew little about them, I'm not even sure he used zinc. The oil was really thin, I mean scary thin, I changed it right away and then a few hundred miles later to flush it out, filter had some metal slivers but not a lot. Turns out the fuel system/electric pump was leaving pressure on the carb which seeped past the bowls and it had a bad percolation issue, the oil smelled like a Shell gas pump.. Fixed all that, it did have a slight tick on the passenger side, #6 Exhaust. I marked all the pushrods to check spin and relashed as needed...all good, good oil. Decided to check the drivers side, pushrods all spun and good oil so I left the adjustments alone, that was last spring 2022... I open all the filters and the last couple looked really good and nothing on the magnetic plug...

I'm really hoping I don't have to screw around too much with this thing, I have a ton of hours in it already...I guess we all do... I have to get a rocker from autozone, the one my buddy gave me is out of a 64 - 327 and is not self aligning... If it runs ok I;ll look into replacing all of them,,



Thanks
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What 427Hotrod is referring to is maybe the length of the pushrods is not stock and should be. Or the length should not be stock and is.
Unfortunately, to find the correct length for your set-up, requires purchasing a Pushrod Length Checker tool. And the removal of the Intake.

Stock pushrods are 7.8 inches long for older SBC. Roller lifters will shorten that distance. Most aluminum heads add length. Usually, 0.100 longer.

Rocker arms that are self-aligning do not need guide plates. Heads with guide plates don't need self align rockers.

Pushrod ends can be "Ball-End" which is pressed into the rod body. These are generally cheap and work well for stock valvetrain. When aftermarket parts are added, a wiseman would upgrade the pushrods to a hardened chrome moly that is all one piece. No pressed-in ends. The entire rod is machined as one piece instead of three. And that is the difference between $19.95 pushrods and those north of $90.

I don't know what your budget is on this critical repair, but I don't believe I would buy one new rocker from AutoZone, buts that's me. As I mentioned the other day, Roller-Tip Rockers will never allow this damage to happen again. You were lucky there was not internal damage this time. Next time might cost you thousands using band-aid repairs.

 

UP

Thanks for the geometry info, knowledge is power. I've been reading up on things, a lot to learn and know before I start changing things. I used Mr. Google to look at rocker breakage pics and stories, I have yet to find the tip broken similar to mine. Most of them break at the pivot due to excessive heat/no oil, or wrong setup, some have damage at the pushrod. I also found a number of the roller tipped ones broken or the roller came loose and dropped bearing needles, I guess S just happens... I'm going with mine being a cheep rocker since it broke in an odd spot and I'm replacing just that one to verify the rest of the engine is oK. I installed it and ran the engine, it's fine but I think I need to replace the pushrods when I do the rockers, they must break in to the rockers with use. The pushrod on this rocker spins really fast, I tried it on another valve with the same results, I can minimize it with a loose adjustment but it really spins-I have different brand coming that I'll try just to see.
I'll probably go with self aligning roller tipped rockers as my studs are pressed in, and the recommended pushrods by the same company, I have a couple of questionable seals so I'll probably do them at the same time... BTW, I have good oil flow, there is a river of it draining on the low side of the head, surprised at how much actually.... I was hoping to put this off until colder weather, maybe I need to throw some money at a garage air-conditioner...lol

Thanks
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Thought I would up date this....

First...Hats off to Blue Print Engines... Called them with the engine number and spoke with the service writer at length, he sent me the complete build specs on the engine and the dyno sheet (322HP/388Trq). He said one of his techs would call me but it would take awhile because they are short of people. He called while I was salt water fishing and said he would call back the next day and he did. I described the issue and we went through a lot of things, he said he has seen a rocker break like mine so he sent me a complete set of GMs, *****, nuts, pushrods, valve cover gaskets and even assembly lube...3 days... The engine is 2.5 years out of warranty.... So, while their engine did break, the part broke they didn't screw it up, plus talk about good customer service!!!!

So, my initial squeak/screech was solved with the rocker replacement, The tip of the valve has a bit of damage that I carefully smoothed any roughness with croccas cloth and etc. I hope its ok, its not bad and I taped it off to keep any grit out of the head.
But after driving it to full temp I still had a squeak that seemed to be lower in the engine, same side, its was fairly loud at idle and went away as you eased on the throttle...Could not locate it, it resonated from the front of the engine to the rear of the trans. I had a little garage party, couple of buddies, some liquid refreshments, jacked it up and tightened every thing we could get a wrench on, motor mount through bolt need tightening as did the header to exhaust flange... Problem solved.... I'm working on the rest of the rockers today...

Thanks for the help and comments,, I'll take a look at it when the weather gets cold and maybe look into rollers then, right now its time to play...

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OK, this is kind of crazy in today's world and I have to post...

I have had these parts a week and today I was finishing up the installation, on the last one and my phone rings... It's Blue Print Engines calling to see how I made out and if I needed an further assistance.... I am not the original purchaser of this engine, it's 2.5 years out of warranty, they sent me a box full of parts for free and called back a week later to see if I needed anything else...

I do, ... I need every company I deal with to act like these folks... Want to know where to buy your next engine...SEE ABOVE!!

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If you haven't seen their video yet check out Blueprint Factory Tour on YouTube. Very impressive.
I would work there for nothing.