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This may be a silly question for some so forgive my ignorance on this one.
I have been searching for a 200-4R overdrive transmission for my 1980 L48. I was in Lake Havasu this week and couldn't pass on the deal, recent full high performance Bowtie Overdrive rebuild with converter and lock up kit for $1400.
Clearly overkill for my L48 but again couldn't pass on the deal.
The torque converter is a 2500 stall and comes with the B&M lock up controller. The 2500 is a bit too much for my application and I'm thinking about purchasing a 2000 stall torque converter as I understand stock is about 1600-1700?
I need some education on the lock up options and as I understand I can get a torque converter that doesn't require a lock up kit?
Is there a better way to go?
the little I understand is I can get a speed activated kit?
again this came with the B&M controller but i dont want to complicate it if its not needed and im gonna purchase another converter anyway.
Thanks in advance for any education on this as clearly not quite my wheelhouse.
Stall speeds as a number are always just a "suggested" stall speed......a 2500 converter in front of a 2004R with the amount of torque you are making is not going to stall at 2500rpm......and use the B&M controller.....the 4th gear and the lockup can get RPM's way down on the Open Road.....the lockup is almost like a 5th gear......
Stall speeds as a number are always just a "suggested" stall speed......a 2500 converter in front of a 2004R with the amount of torque you are making is not going to stall at 2500rpm......and use the B&M controller.....the 4th gear and the lockup can get RPM's way down on the Open Road.....the lockup is almost like a 5th gear......
Jebby
thanks Jebby, so are you saying I should just use the converter that came with? no ill effects? I thought it would require a higher RPM to engage the converter... as i said this is NOT my wheelhouse if that was a dumb assumption.
in this stock L48 would I even see a difference between a stock, 2000 or 2500 converter?
thanks Jebby, so are you saying I should just use the converter that came with? no ill effects? I thought it would require a higher RPM to engage the converter... as i said this is NOT my wheelhouse if that was a dumb assumption.
in this stock L48 would I even see a difference between a stock, 2000 or 2500 converter?
You are missing the point......the 2500 number is a gauge......it probably will not stall there but the 2000 is going to be tighter but a 2000 is what most consider a "stock" converter.......
A 2500 converter is fine on the street........it will give it some pep.......the higher stall means nothing on the highway when the lockup kicks on........I recommend a separate premium pass through Trans cooler.....
You are missing the point......the 2500 number is a gauge......it probably will not stall there but the 2000 is going to be tighter but a 2000 is what most consider a "stock" converter.......
A 2500 converter is fine on the street........it will give it some pep.......the higher stall means nothing on the highway when the lockup kicks on........I recommend a separate premium pass through Trans cooler.....
I have the same trans.It is a must to get the correct TV linkage for your carb or you will smoke that brand new trans on the first drive. An added trans cooler is a must
Last edited by gjohnson; Oct 11, 2023 at 05:14 PM.
It is a must to get the correct TV linkage for your carb or you will smoke that brand new trans on the first drive
Thank you, I plan on having a local trans shop do the install, will have correct TV cable, throttle bracket and what ever else needed before dropping it off.
I did some of these installs back in the 90s on several C3s... I do remember having to get the TV cable as well as the throttle bracket... some of it is coming back to me now.
I want this to be a one day in and out install so just trying to get everything situated and in line first, wasnt sure if i should get a stock or different converter
stall and lockup are 2 totally different things, they don't really affect each other.
stall/flash convertors are rated at what rpm the "slip" stops.
when in drive at a stop the convertor allows trans slip.
then at a certain rpm no slip.
stock is 1500 to 1800.
at higher stall rpm allows engine get to a rpm that it makes power.
usually for a "cammed" engine that needs to idle faster and not be burdened
with a converter trying to not slip.
the lockup doesn't care what rpm the convertor quits slipping, it locks with a pressure
plate and clutch disc just like a manual car.
stall and lockup are 2 totally different things, they don't really affect each other.
stall/flash convertors are rated at what rpm the "slip" stops.
when in drive at a stop the convertor allows trans slip.
then at a certain rpm no slip.
stock is 1500 to 1800.
at higher stall rpm allows engine get to a rpm that it makes power.
usually for a "cammed" engine that needs to idle faster and not be burdened
with a converter trying to not slip.
the lockup doesn't care what rpm the convertor quits slipping, it locks with a pressure
plate and clutch disc just like a manual car.
thank you and I know they are two different things, my question was... if the trans has a 2600 stall now clearly set up for a specific motor build and cam.
#1 should I change the converter to more "stock" 1600-1800 or 2000-2200 as I have a stock L48 or would I even see a difference... I am getting conflicting response on this, some say better initial throttle response and I'm also hearing and reading I could experience a little lag till full engagement.
#2 if I'm going to buy another converter should I just get one that locks in fourth and eliminate the lock up controller.
keep in mind these questions are definitely based on my very limited knowledge and perhaps do not make sense.
I do believe I have decided to get another converter closer to stock and keep the B&M controller.
I used the B&M Controller on my 700r4 swap many years ago, set n forget.
Turns on when you reach your set speed, turns off when you go below your set speed.
I added a brake and vacuum switch in the output wire as well.
That way, when you apply the brakes it turns off, and the vacuum switch is for when you hit the gas, ie: climbing a hill, it disengages also.
I also got creative and added a 10sec delay timer so that once it reaches the set speed, there's a slight delay to allow everything to stabilise, and not hunt back n forth.
thank you and I know they are two different things, my question was... if the trans has a 2600 stall now clearly set up for a specific motor build and cam.
#1 should I change the converter to more "stock" 1600-1800 or 2000-2200 as I have a stock L48 or would I even see a difference... I am getting conflicting response on this, some say better initial throttle response and I'm also hearing and reading I could experience a little lag till full engagement.
#2 if I'm going to buy another converter should I just get one that locks in fourth and eliminate the lock up controller.
keep in mind these questions are definitely based on my very limited knowledge and perhaps do not make sense.
I do believe I have decided to get another converter closer to stock and keep the B&M controller.
you need to understand where your eng makes power
you need to khow what rear gear you have and what RPM you will be using at freeway/cruise speeds in overdrive.
thank you and I know they are two different things, my question was... if the trans has a 2600 stall now clearly set up for a specific motor build and cam.
#1 should I change the converter to more "stock" 1600-1800 or 2000-2200 as I have a stock L48 or would I even see a difference... I am getting conflicting response on this, some say better initial throttle response and I'm also hearing and reading I could experience a little lag till full engagement.
#2 if I'm going to buy another converter should I just get one that locks in fourth and eliminate the lock up controller.
keep in mind these questions are definitely based on my very limited knowledge and perhaps do not make sense.
I do believe I have decided to get another converter closer to stock and keep the B&M controller.
#1. No, I would not change converters. Try that one first. You won't get a lag.
#2. You can't get a different converter that just locks up. Lockup is controlled by the transmission valve body.
Thanks to all, as stated above I purchased a stock converter because I have a stock L48... didn't want to just try this one for a $200 converter, while looking for converters I seen lock up and non lock up options, the original question was could I just use a lock up converter without the controller but as stated above I'm using the B&M controller.
Now the big question is will I tackle the job myself, had the car up high on blocks for headers and side pipes a few weeks ago... would have been the perfect time.
thanks again to all.
Just remember, a decent higher stall converter is the biggest bang for the buck change you can make in any auto car. Having lockup allows for the benefits of more stall without the more cruising slip downside since it locks once cruising.
The B&M kit locks up based on speed only. The problem with that is you have to manually unlock it or kick it down to accelerate once above the set speed. A secondary way to unlock based on throttle is a good addition to it.
Thanks guys... I had three stall options (groups) and went with the mid option... 1800-2000 stall, I always thought stock was about 1650 but hear might be closer to 1350, again went with 2000 stall, for the couple hundred bucks just purchased a new one.
The transmission came with the B&M controller, i know there are other options just came with. Funny i used to have these installed back in the 90s on a number of C3 corvettes and Gen 1 camaros and never installed controllers at that time, never had to buy anything more than transmission, TV cable and bracket... at least that's what I remember.
Lionelhutz I will look into that throttle control unlock
I am getting as much information/education as i can before install, having a hard time finding a local trans shop to do the install, I'm either not comfortable with them or they want the car for a few weeks for fill in and that's not happening. I might tackle this myself.
Last edited by Golfobsessed; Oct 17, 2023 at 08:22 AM.
The transmission came with the B&M controller, i know there are other options just came with. Funny i used to have these installed back in the 90s on a number of C3 corvettes and Gen 1 camaros and never installed controllers at that time, never had to buy anything more than transmission, TV cable and bracket... at least that's what I remember.
And if you didn't run and control a 12 volt signal to the plug on the trans.....then the lockup did not work. It can't.
And if you didn't run and control a 12 volt signal to the plug on the trans.....then the lockup did not work. It can't.
Jebby
absolutely... I must have just drove them that way though i didnt own vehicles very long when I was in my 20s... kinda like that now too, or it was added by the trans shops and I just don't really remember the conversations.
Can you modify the valve body of a 200-4R to just lock all the time in 4th? That can be done with a 700R4, and some people do it so they don't have to deal with the electrical wiring. It would suck though, you get both the shift and the lockup at once and it is always locked until you kick it down and get both the downshift and unlock at the same time.
Speed locking only doesn't allow it to unlock if you step into the throttle again.
Engine power locking only (via a vacuum switch) doesn't keep it from locking at too low an rpm.
Torque converter lock up question
