too many front A arm shims
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
From: South Riding VA
too many front A arm shims
I'm getting ready to install the VBP Perf. Plus; and I'm noticing a stack of shims on the front passenger side a-arm. There's aprox a 1/2 inch of shims stacked on the bolt... there's only 3-4 threads extending beyond the nut.
Is this normal?
Is it safe?
What can I do to tidy this up?
:skep:
Is this normal?
Is it safe?
What can I do to tidy this up?
:skep:
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 19,610
Likes: 778
From: Forked River NJ
Re: too many front A arm shims (ricketyray)
Take a look at your upper and lower control arm bushings. If they have not been replaced chances are this is why the stack of shims. If they are cracked and dry rotted I would suggest that these be done before putting on the suspension kit.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 16,945
Likes: 9
Re: too many front A arm shims (Gordonm)
the more shims the more negative they try to set the camber, if there's more shims in the front or rear they are trying to get the caster correct. I'd check the bushings too and afterwards get a good alignment.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
From: South Riding VA
Re: too many front A arm shims (Gordonm)
Take a look at your upper and lower control arm bushings. If they have not been replaced chances are this is why the stack of shims. If they are cracked and dry rotted I would suggest that these be done before putting on the suspension kit.
Can I assume that it didn't come from factory like that (with all of those shims)?
[Modified by ricketyray, 8:03 PM 1/27/2003]
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,322
Likes: 1
From: Living in the Hartland
Re: too many front A arm shims (ricketyray)
Got the same thing on mine. Might have been in accident and had a minor 'adjutment'. My car tracks fine and steers fine so I am unsure why so many shims. Also have some dry rotting too.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Re: too many front A arm shims (ricketyray)
Mine is the same way. I have almost 1/2 inch of shims on the back and next to nothing on the front. I run 2.75 degrees of positive caster and needed to add all those shims.
As for having only a few thread past the nut is fine. Weather you have 1 thread or 100 past the nut makes not difference to the holding power of the nut.
As for having only a few thread past the nut is fine. Weather you have 1 thread or 100 past the nut makes not difference to the holding power of the nut.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
From: South Riding VA
Re: too many front A arm shims (ricketyray)
This forum is the best collections of well-intentioned, good natured, helpful, humorous, knowledgeable, etc, etc.... human beings anywhere.
:cheers:
:cheers:
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvette Engines RANKED by Peak Torque (70+ Years of Muscle!)
Joe Kucinski
Corvette ZR1X Will Be Pacing the Indy 500, And Could Probably Race, Too!
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvettes Coming to Mecum Indy 2026!
Brett Foote
Top 10 C9 Corvette MUST-HAVES to Fix These C8 Generation Flaws!
Michael S. Palmer
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
From: South Riding VA
Re: too many front A arm shims (BB wowbagger)
I'm going to try new bushings with the new a-arms... If that doesn't fix it, I may move on to more drastic action (?).
I'm not sure what happens when shims loosen or drop, but I assume it isn't good. I just figure the more you got, the more potential points of failure...?
I'm not sure what happens when shims loosen or drop, but I assume it isn't good. I just figure the more you got, the more potential points of failure...?
Racer
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
From: Morganton GA
Re: too many front A arm shims (ricketyray)
Same here, I have more on the passenger side than the driver side. I know I have tie rod ends that need replacing as well as ball joints... rubber is dry as the Sahara, too.... Where is that parts catalog again?
:crazy:
:crazy:
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
From: South Riding VA
Re: too many front A arm shims (norvalwilhelm)
Mine is the same way. I have almost 1/2 inch of shims on the back and next to nothing on the front. I run 2.75 degrees of positive caster and needed to add all those shims.
Where are folks dialing in there caster and camber; and what kind of results, i.e.; tire wear, turn in, top speed/acceleration, etc...
:confused:
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
From: GRIMSBY N.E.LINCS. U.K.
Re: too many front A arm shims (ricketyray)
I agree with worn bushings,while you have suspension out best renew top and bottom A-arm bushings and possibly ball joints (polygraphite ones are easy long lasting but a bit noise,er as they do not absorb as much vibes).Also a s/s shim pack would be helpful plus some new retaining bolts/nuts.
Bolts/nuts part#572043 from Corvette Central,Have a look at your Vette Brakes/Products catalog for desirable other parts and #s.its worth spending a few more dollars whilst your tearing down/ upgrading you will be amazed at the difference it makes BUT take care compressing coil springs,use correct tool. Lastly yu,ve checked the A-arms /Frame has not suffered a hit and is bent??
I doubt Quality Control would have passed a stack that thick when checked.
Good Luck and watch them springs
Sarasota Sam :cheers: :iagree:
Bolts/nuts part#572043 from Corvette Central,Have a look at your Vette Brakes/Products catalog for desirable other parts and #s.its worth spending a few more dollars whilst your tearing down/ upgrading you will be amazed at the difference it makes BUT take care compressing coil springs,use correct tool. Lastly yu,ve checked the A-arms /Frame has not suffered a hit and is bent??
I doubt Quality Control would have passed a stack that thick when checked.
Good Luck and watch them springs
Sarasota Sam :cheers: :iagree:
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,944
Likes: 20
From: The only Corvettes in Highett Victoria
Re: too many front A arm shims (ricketyray)
Gordonm and Norval,
Thank you for your responses to RicketyRay. My 1974 has about seven shims on the right rear bolt and none on the right front while there is one each on the left bolts. Seems a common alignment set up. I guess I'll have to check out the bushes, now. And I thought I'd done all of the hard and dirty work :banghead: BTW, are any of you guys going to the Birthday Party in June? A bunch of Aussies is organising a tour to Kentucky departing the east coast on June 19 and linking up with the California Caravan on their departure a few days later. I'm hoping to find the money to join them and see some of you guys in the flesh ( well, some of it anyway! ) .
:party: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Regards from Down Under
aussiejohn
Thank you for your responses to RicketyRay. My 1974 has about seven shims on the right rear bolt and none on the right front while there is one each on the left bolts. Seems a common alignment set up. I guess I'll have to check out the bushes, now. And I thought I'd done all of the hard and dirty work :banghead: BTW, are any of you guys going to the Birthday Party in June? A bunch of Aussies is organising a tour to Kentucky departing the east coast on June 19 and linking up with the California Caravan on their departure a few days later. I'm hoping to find the money to join them and see some of you guys in the flesh ( well, some of it anyway! ) .
:party: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Regards from Down Under
aussiejohn
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Re: too many front A arm shims (ricketyray)
I have the max amount of castor that stock A-Arms can handle without going beyond the nuts capacity to hold them. 3.95 degrees of castor Zero toe and right now 1.14 neg. camber.
New Moog ball joints make a world of difference if yours are over 10 years old.
New Moog ball joints make a world of difference if yours are over 10 years old.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
From: South Riding VA
Re: too many front A arm shims (gkull)
...Zero toe...
this was the recomendation for the C4;
Daily driver:
Front: Toe-in 1/32 inch
Camber 0 degrees negative
Caster 5-7 degrees positive
Rear: Toe-in 1/8-inch
Camber 0 degrees negative
Advanced Street:
Front: Toe 0”
Camber .25 degrees negative
Caster 5-7 degrees. pos.
Rear: Toe-in 1/8 inch
Camber .50 degrees negative
Autocross:
Front: Toe-out 3/16 inch
Camber 2-1.5 degrees negative
Caster 4-5 degrees positive
Rear: Toe-in 1/16-inch
Camber .75-1.5 degrees negative
Track:
Front: Toe-out 0”-1/16”
Camber 2-1 degrees negative
Caster ???? (probably 5 or more pos. if you can get it)
Rear: Toe-in 1/8”
Camber .75-1.5 degrees negative
:steering:
[Modified by ricketyray, 4:16 PM 1/28/2003]
[Modified by ricketyray, 4:20 PM 1/28/2003]
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Re: too many front A arm shims (ricketyray)
Vette Brakes and Products give base line setting for C-3's I would not use a C-4 as a base line setting.
I normally run Zero toe front and rear and .60 neg front camber and .50 or less neg rear depending on what I'm doing.
Zero toe helps your car go where you point it. I wouldn't have it any other way. I've put on over 100,000 miles with those type settings
The major draw back to high speeds in my Vette or for that matter most any car is too quick of steering ratio. It's very difficult to maintain a straght line on a low adheasion surface at over 175 mph.
to tell you the truth. I don't feel safe in a stock C-3 corvette. They are not a touring car at all. I'll take part of that back. When our Vette's were brand new with the upgrade performance suspension package they were probably on the top of all American cars in the handling department. I thought that my 78 & 79 were real corner carvers. Just lacking power. But as the years go by they just get more and more slop.
I normally run Zero toe front and rear and .60 neg front camber and .50 or less neg rear depending on what I'm doing.
Zero toe helps your car go where you point it. I wouldn't have it any other way. I've put on over 100,000 miles with those type settings
The major draw back to high speeds in my Vette or for that matter most any car is too quick of steering ratio. It's very difficult to maintain a straght line on a low adheasion surface at over 175 mph.
to tell you the truth. I don't feel safe in a stock C-3 corvette. They are not a touring car at all. I'll take part of that back. When our Vette's were brand new with the upgrade performance suspension package they were probably on the top of all American cars in the handling department. I thought that my 78 & 79 were real corner carvers. Just lacking power. But as the years go by they just get more and more slop.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
From: South Riding VA
Re: too many front A arm shims (gkull)
Vette Brakes and Products give base line setting for C-3's I would not use a C-4 as a base line setting.
I'm beting if you did the hwy 318 (or hwy 278?) challenge event :D you know a little something about the handling characteristics C3's when pushed hard. :yesnod:
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 29,077
Likes: 0
From: Deep East Texas
Re: too many front A arm shims (SARASOTA SAM)
Sam pointed out something above that I want to reinterate. Be aware that bent frames are sometimes compensated for by using large numbers of shims. I'm not saying this is the case here, but it's something you should know.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
From: South Riding VA
Re: too many front A arm shims (Mack76)
Sam pointed out something above that I want to reinterate. Be aware that bent frames are sometimes compensated for by using large numbers of shims. I'm not saying this is the case here, but it's something you should know.