http://stevenkamis.com/Cars/MyVette/Series34/dyno.jpg

Hey everyone – long time no speak! Hope you all are doing well. I apologize for being so incognito lately. I got really sick over the holidays after we played around on the dyno & I’ve just been so slammed lately. I wasn’t going to even post these numbers because we never got a good run in, but after re-examining the numbers they are quite intriguing. I have always tried to share everything about this project, both good & bad so I’m curious to hear analysis from the pros. After comparing the numbers to other dyno runs from other cars, I’m feeling a little better about them. I want to give a big thank you to Steve B – you know who you are! His help was indispensable. None of us really knew what the hell we were doing, but with Steve’s experience – we faked it pretty good. I couldn’t have done this without his help. Now I’m going to take it over to Craig Blood & let the pros have a try!

Here’s the scoop. We had all kinds of problems.

The car had been overheating due to insufficient airflow. I think we have that solved by adding this behemoth: http://www.vintageair.com/accessories/page66.htm This little dyno blip is just that – a quick blip of the throttle from 3,000 rpm to 4,000. The actual recording is just 3,200 to 3,800 as you can see. It is very challenging to keep this throttle steady. The response on the Whipples is so quick that just a fraction of a touch opens up those throttle bodies. I was afraid to really open the throttle because I didn’t want to destroy the wheels or the rear end. We drew a line on the half shafts to see if they twisted & they never did. This particular run was on about 3/4 throttle. I never did get the chance to really open her up. The car is a real pain to tune. We really need the pros to do it. We gave it our best shot. At first the car was running so rich that we flamed through some 600 degree aircraft quality tubing that was on the exhaust pipes! That was good fun. After a while we did get it to lean out a bit, but it never did run quite right. We also had 2 arcing spark plugs on the driver’s side. The boots are too close to the headers & we kept melting them. This run was on pump gas with the 4” upper pulleys. The highest boost we saw was around 13 psi, but everything was still climbing when I shut it down around 3,800 rpm.

I was so disappointed with the numbers that I was ready to give up. You just know when an engine isn’t running right & it’s frustrating. It was crackling & popping. The colors on the plugs weren’t right. Like I said, it did improve, but we just ran out of time & didn’t have enough expertise. Another HUGE mistake I made was going with the hydraulic lifters. NEVER USE HYDRAULIC LIFTERS WITH HIGH BOOST!!! One of the zillion things I have learned with this project. The springs just can’t take the boost. I let Steve B drive it on the last run. Mr. Leadfoot had no problem flooring like mad! The numbers were actually worse under heavy acceleration. All that boost & fuel just overwhelmed the springs & the valves started making all kinds of racket.

Ok, so there are all my excuses & problems. Given all the crap, the numbers on that run were pretty astounding, I think most would agree. Keep in mind these are rear wheel numbers. We used a correction factor of 1.18 to get the gross numbers. You can see the flywheel numbers written in at the top. Notice that as soon as we started recording at around 3200 or 3300 rpm it was over 800 pounds of RW torque. By 3500 it had just about reached 875 and when I shut it down at 3,800 rpm, the torque was right around 900 pounds & climbing. What got me so excited about that was looking at Monty’s numbers & noticing that he didn’t hit those numbers until 5,200 rpm. Believe me, Monty has set an extremely high bar, so I felt that we really had something when I saw that.

Given the fact that I wasn’t at full throttle & with all the other problems going on, I don’t think there is any doubt in my mind that Whipple’s claim of 1200+ pounds of torque on pump gas is accurate. What this graph shows me is the reason why hitting the gas on this car is such an adrenalin rush out on the street. When a car is crippled & still cranking 900 pounds of torque that low in the rpm range, it translates into seat of the pants power. The car has so much power that I never realized how bad it was running until we did the dyno!

Anyway, we never even got into the HP numbers – they don’t even cross until 5,200 rpm. We weren’t even close to that rpm range with this test. That 645 HP number was still 43HP higher than Monty at a similar rpm range, so I guess it’s not as pitiful as I originally thought. Monty – honestly, I’m not trying to show you up here. You are just the only I can compare too & get a sense for how we are doing! Seeing your numbers actually gave me quite a renewed vigor for the project because it told me we weren’t in the boost enough to get the higher numbers. You gave me something to shoot for here & I really appreciate your project more than ever!! Without your car, I would have no baseline whatsoever & probably would have sold the car by now.

After Craig has had a chance to tune the thing, we’ll give it another run & go for more rpm. I doubt we’ll ever see the max power in this configuration due to the lifters. My choices lately have been A) accept one of the Ebay offers & give up or B) tear the engine back down, expand it to 700CI & go with solid lifters. I’ve never been a quitter, so there is no telling what might happen. My only regret is that I never did an engine dyno. If we ever really floor this thing on the chassis dyno, I’m afraid parts will go flying!


[Modified by Merlin522, 11:46 PM 1/27/2003]

 

Although I am Steve B as well, I have my doubts that you are referring to me.

800rw torque is fantastic, no matter WHERE in the powerband, but at mid3's is absolutely amazing. That car is guaranteed to burn rubber at any speed below 200 mph. :) Well, at least below 150.

*edit* Read wrong! 900 rw lb-ft! That's astronomical. That horsepower level is unimaginable... one of these days, I'll have to try to catch up to you!

Keep plugging away, Steve! One of these days, you'll have burnt your own little hole in the space-time continuum.

-Steve


[Modified by Pacin'California, 11:50 PM 1/27/2003]

 

Steve,

I think it should be expected that the teething pains experienced with any new engine will be proportional to the power levels expected from that engine. I will add that the same levels of power inducing grins on the driver's face are also proportional to the underwear stains of the passenger's shorts. Isn't that right GDaina?

I might suggest that you get some Jacobs ceramic plug boots and wires for your car. I had the same problem with my L88 making much less power than yours. If you buy direct from Jacobs, the wires are guaranteed for life, PERIOD. Close to $200, but considering the purchase of multiple sets of MSD wires that didn't last a month, a bargain. I have yet to burn another plug wire.

Chuck

 

...Note to self - go here tomorrow http://www.jacobselectronics.com/pro.../sparkplug.htm & get some UltraCeramics! Thanks Chuck. What would I do without you guys!!!???

 

P.S. I really liked your quote. Aaron (WashingtonRacer) can testify to the passenger sensation. Having had Chris drive the car the first time & me being in that seat as well, it's a scary place to be. The driver barely has control of the power. The passenger has NO hope!! On top of that Aaron was trying to hold a video camera! Lots of people complained that Aaron wasn't holding the camera steady. I would like to put those same people in his place & see how they did. Aaron never had to change his diapers once! :p:

 

Give me a round trip ticket and I'll take the video camera challenge! I've done pretty good so far... though I've yet to do a car with more than 300HP. Tell ya what, if I fail, how about I buy you lunch and gas money for... an hour? ;)

-Steve

 

Is that gas money at highway cruising or at WOT for an hour? That could cost more than the plane ticket! :lol: One of the offers I had was from a maniac down in Walnut Creek. Who knows, you might see the car down there - but I doubt. I am really leaning towards keeping it & would be happy to give you the video camera challenge! I've also got some video of the dyno & views of the car from the outside on the way. It looks really wild driving away. Like a frigging UFO... Unidentified Freaky Object!

 

U becha...hehehehe....Jim at JCL Spirals will attest to that when we decided to take the 68 out for a spin right after installing the set.

Steve, If I can make a suggestion....why not just put a solid roller in, iron out the bugs, and see how it runs. You may decide the current dispacement is more than sufficient.

 

George - as you know, I always wanted to go bigger & got talked out of it by the engine shop. These are the same folks that although they build an awesome engine, they talked me into hydraulic lifters & 1360 cfm fans. They are great at building engines, I am good at researching & designing them. From now on I stick to my guns. Since we basically have to tear the whole motor out of there to change the lifters, cam etc - it's as good a time as any to go bigger. Even going to 632 with the present block would be good for at least another 200 HP or so. The quad Whipples really respond well to more displacement. We'll see. If Craig can get the tuning down pat, it may be just fine on the street as it is. I'm no longer really concerned that much about the numbers. I just love the way it feels to hit the gas pedal!


[Modified by Merlin522, 12:26 AM 1/28/2003]

 

Sounds like some great numbers, good to see you back, and glad your well :cheers:

 

Thanks Travis! :cheers:

 

Personally i think your Nuckin Futz to go to 700ci :eek:
but then an 11.5L would be kinda intimidating for a ricer. :lolg: :lolg: :lolg:

Steve, i want to hit numbers lower than that at 6500-7000 RPM, doing it at 3800 blows my mind! :smash: i dont even enter my effective powerband until 2800-3200

damn! :eek:

 

Those are some astronomical number you're cutting there......I agree slamming the throttle will definitely result in engine becoming a weapon of mass destruction......Take it slow and work that puppy....Good luck and glad to see you've decided to continue the project......I've yet to see a run out on the road.....If you have time and a video.....Please E-mail or let me know where a copy can be viewed.....Thanks :seeya Cappy

 

Ben - Hey, I resemble that remark! :lol:

Cappy! What's up???!!! Those rims on your car look PHENOMENAL!! I don’t think Merlin has yet to see anywhere near it’s potential. I hope this Blood guy can get the job done. A quick scan of his site does look like he’s into EFI big time: http://www.bloodenterprises.com Give me about a week to let the eBay crowd die out & I will put the videos back up on my site. So many people hit the site that it tweaks my bandwidth - just from the pictures alone! I’m also going to release the dyno video & some other footage of the car driving later in the week. If anyone out there has mega-bandwidth to spare, PLEASE let me know!!

 

Steve,

I am really glad to see you're going to keep going. I hope you are able to see this project to you're satisfaction, especially after all the time and $$.. Those TQ numbers look awsome and I think you'll easily reach the 1200 TQ, even more with 700CI.. good luck and we look forward to more videos..

Chris :flag

 

Steve,
Going with solid lifter is a good idea.....I was surprised to read that you have hydraulic lifters in there. As you know, the only problem with solid lifters is constant adjustments need to be made. How accessible are your valve covers with the Wipples on there? If you do the engine teardown and install solid lifter, you can remove the engine to do this then get the engine dynoed before you put it back it the car. I vote for you to keep the car and get it right before selling it. Like you said above...you are not a quitter....well, your job is not complete my friend, until all the bugs are worked out and you get a 1200hp dyno run in and an 9 second timeslip!!!!!! Those numbers look like an awesome starting point. BTW I see that some other forums are bashing you......they are just jealous. Take it with a grain of salt and don't let anyone get to you, at least don’t let them or anyone influence your decision on keeping the car or not. It’s your life, money, car etc. SCREW THEM
:thumbs:
John

 

I just can not fathom what that kind of power feels like or how the centrifugal forces don't just tear it apart like a ball of yarn. This project has been one of the most interesting I have followed in Corvette-dom and the anticipation of 'installments' is kinda like when Hib Halverson was doing the Big Block from Hell series. :yesnod:

I applaud your posting the bad with the good. :cheers: Though I don't know how I just called 900rwtq bad! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

The man is back! Good to hear from you Steve, clad you're doing better now. All the little cremlins you still have in the car, those figures are FANTABULOUS!!!! And once you get it all working, god help us! Keep us posted! :cheers: :steering:

 

BTW, for comparison purposes, in my July 2002 dyno run my car crapped out at 3800 too and the torque number was 260rwtq! :lol: :lol: :lol: Only 500 or so less at the same point!

 

Steve,

Just saw this, I already responded to your email. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on this dyno run if the tune isn't right. You can gain ALOT of power and torque with seemingly minor tuning changes. On forced induction engines, a single degree of timing advance under boost can make a significant difference. On my engine it was worth 50hp at some rpms! The same is true with A/F ratio. We picked up almost 80 peak hp by leaning the A/F out from 11.9 to 12.1. I would just look at this dyno run as a baseline and a opportunity to weed out any problems. It soesn't sound like anything broke, except for an exhaust pipe (!), so at least it was a success from that perspective. Heck, It took me 2-3 days to finally get a decent pull on the dyno because the oil pressure wasn't what I was looking for initally. Projects of this magnitude are hardly ever successful the first time out. It's like in programming, think of all the testing we do after we've done coding something. Consider that dyno your first Systems Test.

Find yourself an expert FAST tuner who has some backgorund with forced induction engines. It will make all the difference. All that expensive hardware is no good if the the 1's and 0's aren't right ;). (An I.T. influenced perspective obviously, LOL!)

As for the valvetrain, you might just need a little stiffer valve spring, maybe just 20 more lbs or so to balance out the effect of manifold pressure trying to hang the intake valve open. Alot easier and cheaper to swap springs than lifters, I wouldn't give up on the lifters and cam just yet, unless you think you need to spin it past 6500rpm or so...

I also don't think you need to increase the displacement either. You should easily be able to reach your goal of with 522ci. 1200hp from a 522 is only 2.3hp/ci. A well tuned forced induction engine should be well above 2.5 ci, and even closer to 3.0hp/ci is possible with increased efficiecny on pump gas. I'm at 2.8 hp/ci on 93 octane and an air/air intercooler. Race gas can take that to 5hp/ci+.

It would not surprise me at all to see you reach your goal with not much more than some additional expert tuning.

Good luck!