Hi guys, I am looking into heads and cams and I have found a Clay Smith hydronic roller cam and Edelbrock Victor Jr heads that would convert my engine from a flat tappet cam setup to a roller cam. The problem with this option is that it would cost me a lot more than if I bought cheap Vortec heads and a flat tappet cam. Should I go the more expensive and reliable route with the roller cam or will the flat tappet cam be fine. The engine is a 383 with 11.17:1 compression with 64cc heads.

 

If your budget can handle cost. Yes of course the roller cam is a better choice. You referred to it as more reliable yourself!
At that level of compression. You definitely want to choose the cam carefully.
I run a flat tappet cam and it's just fine. Not everyone reports this however.
For me, the cost of a roller conversion would mean I don't get to drive at all. Just to far outside of possibilities. Everything overseas costs like 3 times as much!

 

I've run flat tappets on my 427 that's about the same compression. It isn't compression you have to worry about, it's the oil and lifters. I'm currently running VR1 20-50 and CompCams EDM lifters. They have a tiny hole that helps oil between the flat face and the cam. Comp, sky and others make them. Was running Mobil1 15-50.....never had a cam issue. Had a roller issue when the needle bearings went on vacation....you want bushed lifters on the roller setup....$1000 bucks just for the good lifters

 

different folks will have different experiences but I have had zero issues with these lifters. https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/en...ve+lifter,5548 they are needle bearing lifterslike most oems have been using since the 80's and they are made by an oem lifter manufacturer

I'm building a 406 now and will be likely be reusing these vs the comp retro roller lifters that came with the 406 before I tore it down. I have since I already have the correct pushrods that go with the heads im using and these lifters. I am going with the summit 1223 LS firing order retro roller cam vs the comp 270hr cam im running in my 355 now with these lifters. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-1223#overview
It cost me about $500 to go from the lunati flat tappet I was running to the comp roller 2 years ago but I already had roller rockers the correct springs for the roller cam. I did go with a composite fuel pushrod and I already had the steel dist gear. I just needed the pushrods, cam button cam and roller lifters

 

Don't go cheap on valve train components....

 

Everybody is different, but I’ve never had a flat tappet fail on me……*knocks on wood*
I have no intention to switch to roller

 

I recommend a running pullout LM7+4l60e with 112,000 miles

Take that cam money and use it on some engine mounts

No more oil leaks, burnt plug wires. Now have 25mpg and 300,000 miles of truck reliability.
if you want power go to ECS for supercharged. Now 550rwhp easily 300,000 miles of reliability still.

All I'm saying is compare costs... whats it worth to have a reliable daily driver with modern fuel injection and overdrive.
The cost compare with what you are about to spend is prob similar.

Sorry not 'modern' any more. The LM7 is antiquated now. But what does that make the small block chevy?

 

I have a hydraulic flat tappet cam with no issues the extra weight of a hydraulic roller lifter puts more load on other valvetrain the higher you rev it.
My flat tappet has been 7k with no issues , I certainly don't suggest that if you want a roller cam id do a solid.but either has their issues. Pick your poison but don't buy junk.

 

At that point why stop there? A gen 4 LC9 can be had out of 07’ to 11’ trucks and SUV’s. Aluminum block, better heads, better timing control. Only a VVT and DOD delete away, which is something you would be doing if you’re changing the cam anyways.

 

Well its all about what you can do for basically free for staters, we should compare cost of free vs spending a little more sure. Those LM7 I have been given free and junkyards are overflowing with them. No need to spend money on DOD delete or accessory bs. Gen3 computer is flex fuel compatible and like 5 wires to make it run in any chassis. Most of the hurdles of the LS swap start to pile on once you go gen4+. However there is a gen4 block aluminum with gen3 electronics that would be the L33, not exactly free but to your point, a much better option if you have the money. But in the case of a pure budget perspective the LM7 being so practically give-away from yards and so reliable and easy to utilize its kind of king, the best of the least complex for cost:reliability:accessibility:simplicit y ratio you can find. pretty much from any engine in the world atm

I'm not trying to start an LS swap debate. I just hope to bring a new option for perspective to the table. Somebody can use time & math to determine which is the suitable long term for some budget, and keeping in mind to replace an LM7 basically free foreever is free , you can officially consider the engine as disposable which is a big step for most people to their perspective. My car has 600rwhp 250,000 miles 25mpg and the engine is free. Not many people know that is possible yet. Chew on that LM7

 

So I assume the maker of those pricey name brand rollers you had fail compensated you for your engine?

 

I came here to say "LM7", but @Kingtal0n beat me to it!

 

I loved the sbc as much as anyone could. When I was not old enough to drive I was assembling a SBC in my fathers living room for a unknown future vehicle. I had all the how to build sbc books and david vizards and smokey Y and summit magazines, all of that. I hung out at horsepower sales instead of going to high school.

Before I was 20 years old I had written a piece of software to automatically tune the sbc using holleys prototype commander 950 original in 2002 with various manifolds and eventually Twin Turbo. if you know somebody who has a twin turbo sbc in 2003 they understand commitment and tenacity, for those days turbo v8 was still a dream scape. My software was one of the first of its kind, a pseudo foundation for modern EFI auto-tuning algorithm we see today in all aftermarket ECU. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/dfi-...der-950-a.html

When I come into a thread like this and suggest the LM7 and L33, it is with the complete knowledge of SBC and its downfalls, I've had my hands down the back side of every sbc crevice, in the dark, smashed and burnt, I have 'header fingers' and reduced reflex to burns because of that thing. I've had the stack of carbs, blower parts, nitrous solenoids, jets and power valves and little drill bits and epoxy for metering plates, all of that. I was obsessed with one thing: daily driver performance. I wanted my cake and eat it too. I wanted power, reliability, and I wanted it for free.

I could make a list here of all the ways the LM7 destroys any sbc or bbc. However, it isn't enough that the engine is simply better, because there are MANY better engines out there. The 1995 2jz for example is just 3L and will support a daily 700rwhp for a 3800lbs Supra for example. It too, is superior to the SBC all around, economy, reliability, leaking, etc... Yes better.

Better isn't enough for me. I desire affordable, easy to find, many high quality factory support parts. Easy to work on. I have a list of requirements somewhere.

What makes the LM7 such an attractive engine isn't just its 'fixing' everything wrong with the sbc... it is also extremely accessible to everyone, many quality swap engine mount kits exist, extremely simple wiring and requirements for the install. A modern truck that you can just jump in and drive anywhere like a normal vehicle. You can actually drive the car everyday without opening the hood anymore. I know nostalgia keeps the sbc in many cars... but if you actually want to drive it like a normal car, with the care free nature and reasonable fuel economy... this is the time. This is the place. Grab one while you still can. The old 02-07 engines are limited production. Right now today they are plentiful as rocks so the price is very low. But soon that will end. The era is gone forever. Just like the 2jz and sr20 and RB26 and 3sgte etc... all the perfect engines of the past are dry up and gone soon and prices will rise dramatically. Because there is nothing really better for an engine swap into a classic era performance gasoline application. The LM7/L33 is the epitome of performance engine grass roots drivetrain swaps for individuals that just want the basics of EFI and transmission controller with a powerful mass produced $50 computer that you can find anywhere and keep spares of easily programmable fully unlocked. I could write a book about how monumental this actually is for people who love to burn fossil fuels and feel the vehicle vibrate and feedback with the simplicity and easy to work on nature of a 'old' engine with minimal extraneous crap attached.

Right now for around the price of 4 quality tires you may easily find a complete LM7+4l60e pullout with low miles, a complete running ready to go engine. No down time. No machine work. Just plug and play. No it isn't easy , it is alot of work. I made a build thread to show how much work goes into extracting power from one. But if you don't care about the power it really cuts down on the amount of work and struggle so keep that in mind- it won't be as fun without forced induction but it will still be a reliable dependable leak free engine. Hell my plug wires have 60k at 600rwhp over 7 years of daily driving and I can't even believe that is possible but there it is. They finally did it, no more header fingers.

Build thread in sig. I posted everything including dyno result and my tune files and made videos to show measurement of key aspects as crankcase pressure and how to properly pressure test etc... a kind of detailed database with everything you would need in theory for any vehicle. As I selected a vehicle that the engine does not belong (it used to have a 4-cylinder) this way I can show the wiring and step by step fabrication as needed or whatever. Yes alot of work but I believe if you are willing to work for it, you can have it. At least, this is a heads up for some of you, grab a pullout drivetrain before they are gone or become expensive. When I see somebody thinking about spending 1500 on a computer or 2k on heads or whatever for a SBC that has so many inherent issues I just see that money could be spent on a totally new drivetrain with superior in every way, running and driving, no machine work, no down time, swap and go. I did my whole swap with a turbo in 3 months only. By myself with no shop, no lift, no air tools, just hand tools over dirt and grass. Plan everything, have all parts ready to go, execute decisive striker.