School me on this type bleeding, does it really work. Thanks

 

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...x-systems.html

 

You are bleeding the brakes from the caliper up to the master cylinder. So, you have to take fluid out of the reservoirs, do not expose the little port/hole on the bottom of the reservoir, that will let air into the system.
Get yourself an old style oil can, the type with a squeeze handle to pump the fluid, and fill it with clean brake fluid.
Now with a piece of clear tubing that fits your oil can and the bleeder, pump the fluid into the tubing to purge the air, attach the tubing to the bleeder, open the bleeder and begin slowing pumping the fluid to the master cylinder.
Calipers that are mounted vertically, are easy to bleed, I usually do the one closest to the master cylinder first.
If on a C3, where the rear calipers are horizontal, I would suggest two things.
First: Have the front of the car jacked higher than the rear, helps air in the lines flow naturally to the master cylinder.
Second: While you are pumping the fluid thru the caliper, lightly tap on the caliper housing with a plastic/candy hammer. This will help dislodge air bubbles and helps them to flow forward to the master cylinder.
I usually will pump 1.5 cans thru each caliper. Probably overkill but I only want to do this once.

Bob

 

Doesn't this mean you have to move air bubbles (that are most likely at the caliper) all the way up to the master cylinder on each and every line? Seems to me pressure bleeding is the better choice. Also, doesn't any dirty or contaminated fluid move up to the master cylinder. At least with a pressure bleed you know when clean fluid arrives.

But I am open to a sensible explanation as to what else might be going on here and why this might have some advantage I haven't thought of.

 

I've had to use reverse bleeding once on a master cylinder for hydraulic clutch and often on motorcycles. I just use a large syringe and some vinyl hose to do it. For whatever reason forward bleeding just won't get it done sometimes, so reverse bleeding it is in those cases.

 

Recently reverse bled rear brake on a Harley as the caliper is above the rear master cylinder. Can't imagine doing this on a car!!!
VS

 

This comes up on here every so often. Look for a Phoenix brake bleeder. Fairly inexpensive. Yes, pushes air out the top. Simple physics. Air wants to go up! Yes on Motorcycles often it's the only way to get a tight, hard brake.
Our C3 Corvette's have lip seal calipers, (Stock anyway). The lip seals seal well one way . Not the other. Which is why our brakes are sensitive to rotor runout. Anyway, tools that suck brake fluid out the bottom, commonly used on all types of cars and trucks and motorcycles really don't work well with lip seals.
Many have luck pressure bleeding from the top. But some still run into issues with trapped air. Air wants to go up. Push the fluid up and you push the air out the top. Works absolutely fantastic.
Yes I have a great deal of experience here.
Think, Phoenix brake bleeder!

 

Actually the rear brake on a Harley is easy as the caliper is higher than the master. It's the front brakes that won't bleed tight as the master is higher than the calipers. And air wants to go up! But hey, I've only worked on Harley's for 50 years.

 

Pretty much any motorcycle has the front brake master up top. Right behind the lever. Not just Harley's.

 

I won't argue with that. It's just that I am a Harley Mechanic. So I refer to my real world experience.
I also have a great deal of experience working on C3 Corvette's. But none working on Honda's or Pickup trucks.

 

You are correct in that u are moving air up to the master cylinder along with old, dirty fluid. The advantage of reverse bleeding is that you are moving the air out, once you have pumped a can or so up the line, all of the old fluid is now in the master cylinder and has been pulled out of the reservoir.

You would think that a pressure bleeder would be the answer but not always. Air gets trapped in the calipers, at the top of the bores, and doesn't want to come out, especially on the C3 rears. They mount horizontal. With either pressure or reverse bleeding, tap the caliper with a candy hammer to dislodge air bubbles.

Vacuum bleeders are a pain cause you are sucking air past the bleeder threads and possibly past the lip seals. Not good. Plus, if you are looking for clear/clean fluid to come out of the clear tubing, it is usually full of air bubbles and you can't tell if the system is air free or not.

 

I realize that this is a C-3 Corvette discussion, but I have a question. I have used Plews "bleeder ball" pressure bleeders, Motive Products pressure bleeders, as well as the aforementioned Phoenix "reverse bleeder". However, much of my experience has been on non-ABS equipped cars. My question is, "How would the Phoenix reverse bleeder, work on an ABS equipped car"?

 

ABS cars and motorcycles always have o ring type calipers. So generally vacuum bleeding tools are used. After a manual bleed. The servo needs to be cycled to work air out of the ABS Servo unit. Then manual bleed again.
I would think you could push it up with a Phoenix just the same as pulling it down with a vacuum bleeder. But you would still need to plug it in and cycle the unit.

 

I use the Phoenix Reverse Bleeder on my 1988 C4 Corvette and it's very primitive BOSCH ABS System. It works fine on my C3 and allows me to really flush the lines quickly and thoroughly. The PRB even makes short work of flushing the ABS brake lines in the 29' RV. I have been using a PRB on a variety of land, sea and air vehicles over the decades I have owned it. It works very well for me doing the entire bleeding process by myself and quickly. I have the tools to blow the dirty fluid straight up and out. Doing GM hydraulic clutches is easy for these PRB devices. Many times it is the ONLY tool that can do the job. Even on the early ABS brakes on the 1988 C4 had special tricks to bleeding them correctly. I have an older Snap On MT2500 and they made a module that was designed to work on the early Bosch Anti-lock brakes. It would activate the various solenoids in the system to allow fresh fluid to be pumped through. It is possible to flush what you can and drive it and bleed them again to ensure the fluid is all fresh.

It's not likely that I ever have pumped bubbles INTO the system using my Phoenix bleeder. It draws a flow of fresh, clean, filtered brake fluid in a 16 ounce bottle and pushed it into the lines which with a bit of help can rid the system of bubbles. It is normally very obvious when the new fluid appears in the master cylinder because of the brake fluid color. Using a Turkey baster I remove the excess brake fluid and keep a bowl under the master cylinder and towels near readily available in case of any spills.

I just ordered a complete new "hose and rubber piece set" for mine as the originals are starting to hardening up. I need to keep the tool working as I have several vehicles to take care of. This one tool in my shop that is worth taking good care of. If you keep it clean and wiped down it is much more pleasant for the user. The Motive Power Bleeder sits gathering dust with all the other "Easy Bleeding Tools". I tried vacuum pumps and all sorts of gimmicks before trying the reverse bleeding system. Once I tried the PRB it was easy and I was hooked, a simple well designed tool.

While pushing the fluid up the lines heading towards the master cylinder I have recommended that the operator "tap" on the calipers gently/Lightly and the brass unions in the brake lines. Air is very good at "hanging on" inside the brake system just hoping to get trapped. After completely rebuilding the calipers there was lots of trapped air lingering inside the system. The PRB was able to push enough air out to get a nice firm pedal pretty quickly.

After installing a new set of brake seals/parts and then we switched from DOT3 to DOT5 tried Silicone Brake Fluids before draining it all out, flushing the lines including the m/c several times before being able to go back to a good DOT 3 brake fluid. Making bleeding the brakes an easier job is what the tool is about and if used carefully it does a great job.

These are my thoughts about the Phoenix Reverse Bleeder, it is simply a very useful tool that saves me time doing a job that is not popular. When I hear how much the local service stations want to flush the brakes I am shocked. I like saving money and helping the vehicles running safely.

 

I use the Phoenix system as well. It is truly a one person job. I opted for the mid-grade unit as it looks to be a bit more substantial. The first time I used it, I was convinced. Jerry

 

Thanks for everyone’s input, looks like I know what I need to do.

 

When you all are saying PRB system, which one are you using, I’m looking at the V-12 model. Looks like that should suffice.

TIA.

 

I am using the Phoenix Reverse Bleeder Model V-12 as well and it has been more than able to do the job on anything I used it on. It is also re-buildable if you need to do so. Like I mentioned above I just ordered a whole new set of hoses and adapters that have dried out and become hard over the decades. I am looking for another few decades of service out of this tool.

The PRB was able to help me recently when I overfilled my engine's oil level by a tiny bit. Using a small hose I was able to pump out the excess without draining the engine. This tool is very handy and you can find uses for it around the shop.

 

I've been using the Phoenix reverse bleed system since the late 90s and especially when replacing brake lines. It's much less hassle and truly a one person job. Occasionally, I'll need to do a gravity bleed on top of the reverse bleed to get a firmer pedal, but it always gets me close.