Question:
I'm looking for an AFR gauge here are three I'm looking at if anyone has any experience or suggestions. I'm looking for a gauge that has a data logger or supporting software I can use with a laptop to record and analyze the results. I'm running a Holley 4150.
Thanks


(This is a great instruction video but I'm looking for real time data)

​​​​​​https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/...-kit-8-ft.html


​​​​​​https://www.zeitronix.com/Products/ZR-3/ZR-3.shtml


​​​​​​https://www.aemelectronics.com/produ.../parts/30-0300

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Logging the AFR data would be cool.
But....why stop there?

to really make the tuning easier, it would help to see the speedometer, the tachometer, the AFR gauge and a vacuum gauge readings all at the same time.
To do all that with datalogging would be pretty difficult, but not with a video camera.

You could use a video camera to record all 3-4 gauges, and then just drive randomly. And you could even use your oem analog gauges.

Without all that data, it will be much more challenging to determine how much load you were putting on the carb. It could be done tho.

I did some datalogging on an ECM / EFI car. Pretty cool.
But I am really chomping at the bit to tune my 4150 Holley the same way, with an AFR gauge.

I am also going to use a Progressive Ignition distributor, that I can tune the timing curve from my phone with.
I will also video that live data screen as well, and tune the timing curve as well as the AFR in all 3 or 4 circuits in the 4150.

Basically I want clean idle, economical cruise, safe WOT, and two timing curves, one for hi-octane, and a retarded timing curve option for regular gas.

 

Sounds like you should go to and EFI system if you want that much "tunability". A lot harder doing all that with a carb. I know some want to stay old school but after switching to EFI I will never go back unless the zombie apocalypse comes and all things electronic are dead.

 

I used the LM-1 from Innovate with their software and was very happy,
I built a 5 volt generator and added TPS, MAP sensors along with logging the timing, AFR and RPM
all while running a 4150 Holley HP carb.

Neal

 

Here is the real-time dash mode pic of a cellphone via bluetooth while running the Progression Ignition distributor.

It gives you realtime data on speed, tachometer, timing advance and vacuum all on-screen.
All you would really have to add would be the AFR gauge to do some in-depth tuning.

And why do it this way instead of going full efi?

• This install is 1000x easier, all you do is drop in the distrib.
• You can completely undo the install in 10 minutes if desired.
• You get all the advantages of a full blown easily tuneable EFI style timing map. And that is likely the main advantage of EFI.
• Tuning the timing curve happens in seconds vs hours.
• You get none of the tuning headaches of the fuel side of an EFI install, I have done and helped with several, and they are often a mess.
• It looks virtually 100% original under the hood and inside the car. Which is very important to some of us.
• A well tuned carb can run as good as full blown EFI.
• A carb is much more reliable than any aftermarket EFI system.
• EFI has a sudden death failure mode and replacement parts for aftermarket systems are not readily available nation wide.
• It looks period correct. The modern touches are hidden.
• I can store a regular gas timing curve for when I can not get hi-test out on the road.
• At my local corvette shop, we have pulled several aftermarket EFI systems off Gen 1 engines , and gone back to carbs, for various reasons. They refuse to install Snipers anymore. Period.
• If it was an LS, it should have the factory EFI. But I do not have much good to say about the aftermarket EFI adaptions on an old Gen 1 Chevy, when squeezed under a C3 hood.

So yeah I have a couple reasons!

 

Check out a YouTube channel called thunderhead289. The guy who posts there has a product he developed he calls “The Carb Cheater”. I’m not affiliated in any way but I’ve been considering doing what you’re attempting with your Holley too.

 

Okay,
FI is great but that’s not where I’m at right now.

carb cheater will not fit under my hood as I has 1/8” before my air cleaner hits the hood. It’s a 454 so there’s no room for the carb spacer in the kit.

 

Innovate does log data and give real time AFR/Lambda. Been a while but I did use it that way. I just set up the fuel curve and then put it back in the box when Im done. Why watch it any more than that? Just a tool, not a toy.

 

What many of the SBC C3 owners do not realize is just how incredibly tight the hood clearance is on the BBC C3 cars. Almost any change from the factory parts does not work even with a stock bb hood. Any aftermarket change, like EFI, intakes, spacers, air cleaners, they are all very problematic.

So I understand the motivation to keep the entire intake system factory spec.

SBC owners have a wide range of options. On a BB even one small change might mean a new hood, and that gets expensive fast.

 

I just looked up this product and it sounds pretty good.
It runs thru your smartphone, and let's you monitor and make carb AFR changes on the fly.

It works by using a PWM controlled air valve to add more air into the intake, leaning the mixture.
So you set your carb mixture screws up just a touch rich, and let it do the rest.
It has an Auto mode, to constantly adjust on the fly.
It has separate AFR targets you can set for idle, and cruise, and it defaults to the carb for WOT.
So you can run ~13 at idle if you want, and push the cruise AFR to 14.5-15.0-16.0 for economy.
Cruise mode kicks in 350 rpm past idle, and it also drops to 12.5 WOT at a user adjustable vacuum setting, like at ~9.0", like a power valve.
Leaning the cruise AFR out on a Holley is somewhat difficult, and it totally eliminates that.

So you can have 3 user set AFR targets, much like this chart from an AVS.

But notice there are FOUR AFR targets in the chart above. Unlike the AVS, QJet or Holley carbs, there is no part throttle acceleration AFR adjustment / setting / enrichment.
If you really lean the cruise out past 14.5, you could get part throttle acceleration issues, because it will over-ride the carb enrichment.
IMO you are stuck at 14.5 for part throttle and cruise, not much more.

It also comes with a datalogger.

It comes with a carb spacer, for a center air / vacuum inlet, but you can use on on your carb instead if it has one.
With both this and the Progression distributor you would have full distrib and carb control from the drivers seat, on the road.

But I am with stingr69, I just want to tune the carb, or distrib, once, and then put it away. I do not want to see a digital AFR gauge in my classic car everyday. Tuning is one thing.

From what I can tell, this makes no permanent / saved changes to the carb, and the software/phone must be running to make the AFR adjusting.

The Progression distrib is different in this regard, it will save your carefully tuned timing curve internally, and you never have to use the phone app again, if you do not want to.

Based on the two drawbacks that I highlighted in red above, I will just use my temporarily installed LM-1 for AFR tuning, then pack it away. I want my carb changes permanent.

 

I think the Innovative LM-2 is what you are looking for. I used it to adjust the A/F tables when I was burning chips for my Crossfire Injection ECM.

 

donjuan1 I tune carburetors almost every day with an O2 EGO gauge and a vacuum gauge. No datalogging. You have to have a vacuum gauge. You are the datalogger. You also have to know how a carburetor works to make adjustments. I use an analog face EGO gauge. Much easier than digital numbers racing by. I use Autometer Ultra Lite AFR white face gauges. https://www.summitracing.com/search/...ratio-wideband They do have a logging output. There is no stored data in the gauge. Use your AFR logic. Startup, idle, transition, cruise, power. Be prepared to spend a lot of time. A mess with every change. FIRE EQUIPTMENT! Here is a picture of carb parts I was working on last week and what I am working today that I am datalogging. It is a Killshot throttle body controlled by a Microsquirt ECU. Good Luck JP Don't know why pictures posted before the text.

 

I agree, If you are not looking at installing a permanent AFR gauge in your dash somewhere.

 

I've been using the Innovate LM1 since it came out many years ago I can't even remember. I also have a Innovate gauge where the clock used to be. Data logging is fine but once you get everything setup the data logging is no longer needed and I can take the LM1 out but I don't because it is bolted in behind the passenger seat.