Replacing Rear-end gears...help!
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 109
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Replacing Rear-end gears...help!
Ok i orderd a set of 4.11s for my 79 and i would like to install them, but there is a small problem...I have never installed gears before.
Should i do this myself, or should i take it to a shop and have it done. If i should do it myself is there anyone out there that could perhaps give me some instructions on this project.
Any help would be appreciated
Should i do this myself, or should i take it to a shop and have it done. If i should do it myself is there anyone out there that could perhaps give me some instructions on this project.
Any help would be appreciated
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 235
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Re: Replacing Rear-end gears...help! (OBL1V1ON)
There are a few special tools required to do this yourself. I am not sure but you may need a different carrier for those gears. I would check with the people you are buying the gears from they should be able to tell you everything you need. i just recently put gears in my 1980. I used 3.73 and was able to use the stock carrier. I would try and find someone to do it or to help you do it. I wish I had... I ended up removing the rear a second time and having a dealer re-setup the rear for me. Luckly I made a few guess changes before I gave it to him and he didn't have to do anything to it. I lucked out if you ask me. Another thing to do is you can check with a local Vocational school (BOCES, or other schools that teach auto mech.) They will sometimes make a lesson out of the project and all it costs you is parts. There are several ways to go. But if you do not have some of the special tools needed you will only do more harm than good. Hope this helps some. I just got through my little gear headache. Wish I had some one else do it right the first time.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,126
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From: WI
Re: Replacing Rear-end gears...help! (OBL1V1ON)
As posted above you need a 4-series posi (or a spacer-NOT recomended) and some special tools. This is the one of the few jobs I would NOT tackle.
...redvetracr
...redvetracr
Premium Supporting Vendor
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,312
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From: Clearwater FL
Re: Replacing Rear-end gears...help! (redvetracr)
Yep you ned that 4 series carrier. They run about $400. Doing the rear can be somewhat difficult. Your main problem will probably with the clutch pack if you've never done it before. You may want to take it to a local gear shop and have them do that for you. The rest of the project is pretty simple.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,770
Likes: 3
From: St Louis MO
Re: Replacing Rear-end gears...help! (OBL1V1ON)
if u have a 3-series gear now, the 4.11s prolly won't fit, unless they are made to fit on a 3-series carrier. might not be a bad idea to upgrade to an Eaton 4-series carrier. I set up a 10-bolt once for a 69 Camaro I once owned, but it whined a little on deceleration. I used the grease method to determine the gears' relationship. It can be done without special tools but you run a bigger chance of the gear relationship not being right if you don't read the grease well enough. If I did this again, I would definitely buy the micrometers to do the job right. There's a ton of printed help on this.
Brett :thumbs:
Brett :thumbs:
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,322
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From: Living in the Hartland
Re: Replacing Rear-end gears...help! (OBL1V1ON)
What are your plans for the car? You might want to return the 4.11 and get a 3.90 if your heart is set on a low gear. I have a 3.70 and wish I had a 3.55.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,131
Likes: 4
From: May help you? You can sure as hell try!
Re: Replacing Rear-end gears...help! (OBL1V1ON)
I'm not afraid of doing any kind of rebuild work normally, but I sent my rear end out to be done for the following reasons:
1) The special fixtures required to set up the gears would be much too expensive to buy considering how little I would use them and I don't know anyone that HAS them let alone would let me borrow or rent them. The cost of the tools would cost as much as the rebuild.
2) Getting the pinion depth and shims set properly is critical to the job to ensure that the gears operate quietly and wear correctly.
3) It would be way too much of a PIA to take the rear end out back out of the car to fix it if I screwed something up.
I'd say ante up the bucks to let someone who specializes in this kind of work get it done right for you the first time.
Good luck whatever you decide!
Eric H
1) The special fixtures required to set up the gears would be much too expensive to buy considering how little I would use them and I don't know anyone that HAS them let alone would let me borrow or rent them. The cost of the tools would cost as much as the rebuild.
2) Getting the pinion depth and shims set properly is critical to the job to ensure that the gears operate quietly and wear correctly.
3) It would be way too much of a PIA to take the rear end out back out of the car to fix it if I screwed something up.
I'd say ante up the bucks to let someone who specializes in this kind of work get it done right for you the first time.
Good luck whatever you decide!
Eric H
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Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,004
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From: Severna Park Md
Re: Replacing Rear-end gears...help! (OBL1V1ON)
I will verify that 3.90's will fit the 3 series carrier. Thats as low as you can go on the 3 series carrier. I got 3.90 on my 3 series that originally had 3.08
[Modified by Jvette73, 8:50 PM 4/30/2003]
[Modified by Jvette73, 8:50 PM 4/30/2003]
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Re: Replacing Rear-end gears...help! (Jvette73)
Well i know i want to stick with the 4.11s b/c i got a great deal on them. And this car is just a cruiser/street racer so gas isnt an issue either.
So now all i have to do is get a 4 series carrier and take it to a shop, right?.......sounds simple enough.
Guess ill start looking for a 4series carrier.....uhg part hunting never ends...
So now all i have to do is get a 4 series carrier and take it to a shop, right?.......sounds simple enough.
Guess ill start looking for a 4series carrier.....uhg part hunting never ends...
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 117
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From: winnipeg manitoba
Re: Replacing Rear-end gears...help! (OBL1V1ON)
Your best bet is to take out the pumpkin yourself and take it to a shop the cost should be pretty cheap because they can do it on a bench.
Ken :cheers:
Ken :cheers:
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,407
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From: Carmichael CA
Re: Replacing Rear-end gears...help! (OBL1V1ON)
I was initially doing my own rear end. Everything was going great until I go to the point where I needed to install the carrier assembly. The big problem is that the assembly NEEDS to be installed as a tolerance fit which means using a press to wedge it in there, and to use the exact amount of shims to line it up and get the proper compression after it's in there. I tried the old hammer and wound up cracking the pinion and just turning my rear end into a piece of junk.
I recommend taking the rear end to a shop. You might want to assemble the clutches and pumpkin by yourself just to make sure it's done right, but when it comes to lining everything up and getting the proper compression on the bearings then I suggest a shop that has done these before. In fact, when I replace my stock rear-end I will be buying a complete rear-end new from a factory.
I recommend taking the rear end to a shop. You might want to assemble the clutches and pumpkin by yourself just to make sure it's done right, but when it comes to lining everything up and getting the proper compression on the bearings then I suggest a shop that has done these before. In fact, when I replace my stock rear-end I will be buying a complete rear-end new from a factory.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 109
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Re: Replacing Rear-end gears...help! (Rockn-Roll)
Guess what guys.............I found a place that makes 4.11s for a 3 series carrier!
Theyll be installed in a week or so. Ill let you you guys know how it does.
Theyll be installed in a week or so. Ill let you you guys know how it does.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 43,136
Likes: 155
From: Thomson Georgia
Re: Replacing Rear-end gears...help! (Van Steel)
Yep you ned that 4 series carrier. They run about $400. Doing the rear can be somewhat difficult. Your main problem will probably with the clutch pack if you've never done it before. You may want to take it to a local gear shop and have them do that for you. The rest of the project is pretty simple.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Re: Replacing Rear-end gears...help! (OBL1V1ON)
Guys it is no black majic setting up gears. With a simple press, a dial indicator, marking compound, factory shim packages, a torque wrench , actually 2 and a pinion bearing puller it is not hard at all.
I have talked various member through this process before but you must have the above tools or at least access to them.
I have a pinion checking micrometer but seldom use it. I go with the grease method.
I would not pay hundreds of dollars for something I can do myself.
I have talked various member through this process before but you must have the above tools or at least access to them.
I have a pinion checking micrometer but seldom use it. I go with the grease method.
I would not pay hundreds of dollars for something I can do myself.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,102
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From: spring city pa
Re: Replacing Rear-end gears...help! (norvalwilhelm)
:iagree: Norval is right ,checking the pattern always works out . I have done numerous rears , and some times after doing the set up using a pinion depth tool you find the pattern is simply in the wrong place . It is pretty easy to make a spreader for the housings , and is quite handy during assembly .
Geo
Geo
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Re: Replacing Rear-end gears...help! (Alwyn678)
only payed 25 bucks to have the machine shop to set it up
You got a real deal Alwyn678. That doesn't even cover 1/2 hour of labor. I spend a couple of evening setting up a set but when I am done I know the pattern is right and they will not howl. I believe it is hundreds to set up a rear end but having never paid for it I wouldn't know.
You got a real deal Alwyn678. That doesn't even cover 1/2 hour of labor. I spend a couple of evening setting up a set but when I am done I know the pattern is right and they will not howl. I believe it is hundreds to set up a rear end but having never paid for it I wouldn't know.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,086
Likes: 786
From: Lebanon Township New Jersey
Re: Replacing Rear-end gears...help! (norvalwilhelm)
I have a slightly off - topic question for you guys. Can the pumpkin be removed without dropping the exhaust pipes? Would removing the spare tire carrier provide enough room to slide the pumpkin back and then down? Thanks for any info.
