Rip off machine shop, I'll do it myself!
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
From: Seattle WA
Rip off machine shop, I'll do it myself!
Machine shop work is so expensive. I had an engine failure due to their error, and they still want ofer 800 :eek: bucks to put new bearings, hone, and reassemble my shortblock. I brought it to them bare, and this is the best deal they can do? So I'm having them put the new bearings in and hone the cylinder walls only if it needs it, and I'm going to assemble the engine myself. I bought a great book that details the process of tearing down and rebuilding smallblocks and I'll just take my time and do it right.
On a more kickazz note, I got some slightly used 8 month old used AFR 195s for a grand shipped. The new roller setup is all here too, I can't wait to get back on the road.
So is there a problem with putting the same rings back in and not honing it if it looks good and doesn't have many miles on it? The cam wiped a lobe and ruined the cam and main bearings. Do I need to unhang the pistons for cleaning? It wasn't blowing any smoke or anything when I pulled it out due to low oil pressure. Any recommendations as to what is necessary after a failure like this? Thanks for any replies
On a more kickazz note, I got some slightly used 8 month old used AFR 195s for a grand shipped. The new roller setup is all here too, I can't wait to get back on the road.
So is there a problem with putting the same rings back in and not honing it if it looks good and doesn't have many miles on it? The cam wiped a lobe and ruined the cam and main bearings. Do I need to unhang the pistons for cleaning? It wasn't blowing any smoke or anything when I pulled it out due to low oil pressure. Any recommendations as to what is necessary after a failure like this? Thanks for any replies
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 16,978
Likes: 7
From: In Dreams There Is Truth Ohio
Re: Rip off machine shop, I'll do it myself! (inqbus383)
rings are not that expensive. I would not take a chance and risk driving a smoker just to save 100 bucks or less.
If you wiped out your main bearings, chances are you have particles flowing through your oil systes and in your oil galleys. I think if you don't pull it appart and get the block boiled, you may be looking at another rebuild down the road. Don't be penny wise in this case...do the job right, and find another machine shop, one competent to do the work.
Assembling the short block is not that big a deal, main thing is to compress the rings and orient the rings on the pistons per mfg. specs.
[Modified by GDaina, 2:08 AM 5/1/2003]
If you wiped out your main bearings, chances are you have particles flowing through your oil systes and in your oil galleys. I think if you don't pull it appart and get the block boiled, you may be looking at another rebuild down the road. Don't be penny wise in this case...do the job right, and find another machine shop, one competent to do the work.
Assembling the short block is not that big a deal, main thing is to compress the rings and orient the rings on the pistons per mfg. specs.
[Modified by GDaina, 2:08 AM 5/1/2003]
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,183
Likes: 2
From: Des Moines Iowa
Re: Rip off machine shop, I'll do it myself! (GDaina)
I agree. Would not re-stall with same rings. No big deal to put a hone into each cylinder wall, just enough to break the glaz, and give you a good seal for the new rings. Also will provide a good chance to clean the pistons.
I don't see a need to remove each piston from it's connecting rod. Clean and then lube each real good. Also agree you've got to really make sure that the block is clean, and free of the metal particles from your previous cam lobe problem.
I don't see a need to remove each piston from it's connecting rod. Clean and then lube each real good. Also agree you've got to really make sure that the block is clean, and free of the metal particles from your previous cam lobe problem.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,339
Likes: 24
From: I can walk to MA
Re: Rip off machine shop, I'll do it myself! (john's '81 mouse)
I agree. Would not re-stall with same rings. No big deal to put a hone into each cylinder wall, just enough to break the glaz, and give you a good seal for the new rings. Also will provide a good chance to clean the pistons.
I don't see a need to remove each piston from it's connecting rod. Clean and then lube each real good. Also agree you've got to really make sure that the block is clean, and free of the metal particles from your previous cam lobe problem.
I don't see a need to remove each piston from it's connecting rod. Clean and then lube each real good. Also agree you've got to really make sure that the block is clean, and free of the metal particles from your previous cam lobe problem.
thouroughly cleaned out. After you get it back from them, I woudl blast it out
good with a pressure washer (car wash). Wipe down the machined surfaces
immediately - and proceed to blow the 'F' out of it with compressed air.
Then, spray it down with any kind of oil (WD40) and wipe it clean. Always
use paper towels !! Cotton towel lint will collect and clog your oil passages.
Paper towel lint breaks up and dissolves more readily in the oil.
I once got a block back from honing (wrapped in plastic).
I proceeded to assemble without washing it out. Well, apparently there
was some honing debris that was left in the oil passages. It all went straight
to the rear main bearing. Disassemble and reassemble again. :mad
[Modified by NHvette, 12:40 PM 5/1/2003]
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 922
Likes: 0
From: Maine
Re: Rip off machine shop, I'll do it myself! (inqbus383)
What's the deal with the machine shop? If they admitted fault shouldn't they offer to make good on the work? Or at least cut you a better deal than that!? You'll probably do a better assembly job than them, just because you care about what you're doing. Attitude is everything.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 16,945
Likes: 9
Re: Rip off machine shop, I'll do it myself! (inqbus383)
forget the glaze breaker hone, get a bottle brush/bubble gum hone. Much easier to work with and the results are much better. It's quick too!
Left cyl. done w/ above hone:
Left cyl. done w/ above hone:
Race Director
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 10,258
Likes: 1
From: Calif.
Re: Rip off machine shop, I'll do it myself! (inqbus383)
The same thing happened to me a while back. I will never trust another "professional" to do anything else on my engines excpet the heavy machine work (Which will be religiously checked before assembly.)
As for your rings. Yes, I would (and did) replace them. And, just for giggles and s**ts, try putting the old rings down into the bores before you get it re-honed. You might just be surprised to discover the kind of "quality control" used by some "professionals" in this arena.
My top rings, for example, ranged from .019" to .040" and all over the place in-between. And the gaps were not perpindicular--they were angled and very sloppy. It looked like the "professional" gapped those rings with a freakin' Dremel or something. Spec for the tops on that engine was/is .022"-.024" and you can bet your last dollar that's exactly what they are now.
If anyone in So. Cal. wants to know an engine builder NOT to use, just IM me...
As for your rings. Yes, I would (and did) replace them. And, just for giggles and s**ts, try putting the old rings down into the bores before you get it re-honed. You might just be surprised to discover the kind of "quality control" used by some "professionals" in this arena.
My top rings, for example, ranged from .019" to .040" and all over the place in-between. And the gaps were not perpindicular--they were angled and very sloppy. It looked like the "professional" gapped those rings with a freakin' Dremel or something. Spec for the tops on that engine was/is .022"-.024" and you can bet your last dollar that's exactly what they are now.
If anyone in So. Cal. wants to know an engine builder NOT to use, just IM me...
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Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,854
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From: HONOLULU HAWAII
Re: Rip off machine shop, I'll do it myself! (Twin_Turbo)
Twin_Turbo,
This tool......Do you run it on a drill? How many times up and down the bore?....Looks like it did a nice job on that left bore. :thumbs: :flag :seeya Cappy
This tool......Do you run it on a drill? How many times up and down the bore?....Looks like it did a nice job on that left bore. :thumbs: :flag :seeya Cappy
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 16,945
Likes: 9
Re: Rip off machine shop, I'll do it myself! (8T1-7T9 BIONIC VETTE)
Yes, you can run it in a normal hand drill, just run it up and down in the bore untill you're satisfied w/ the result. It goes very very fast, maybe 10 15 times up and down would do it.
