Torque Converter Alignment Washer Doodad?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 2
From: Beaverton, OR
Torque Converter Alignment Washer Doodad?
After pulling my engine, I noticed that there was a washer that looked like it was supposed to mate up to the front of the torque converter, but mine was seriously buggered up... I had been hearing a loud rattling noise that I couldn't pinpoint that last several times I started the car... I couldn't find any obvious source for the noise, so I'm thinking that this was probably it:
What should I do about this? Do I need a new torque converter, or is this washer not really necessary? If I need a new converter, does anyone have any recommendations as to what would be a good choice for this engine: http://corvette.ficker.net/engine_spec.php
What should I do about this? Do I need a new torque converter, or is this washer not really necessary? If I need a new converter, does anyone have any recommendations as to what would be a good choice for this engine: http://corvette.ficker.net/engine_spec.php
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
Re: Torque Converter Alignment Washer Doodad? (dath)
I dunno what or who is playing around, but in fact that washer is not a legit part belonging in any torque converter install I have ever seen....not ONE of them...I think some amateur mechanic was having fun....
GENE
GENE
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,341
Likes: 6
Re: Torque Converter Alignment Washer Doodad? (dath)
-Note that I ran a machine shop for eight years that re-built torque converters-
That "washer" is in fact the pilot of your 13" THM400 torque converter. This is a fairly common failure with this unit, I have replaced hundreds of them myself. Unfortunately, it is not a job for the typical home mechanic.
You need a new or rebuilt converter.
[Modified by 45ACP, 7:04 PM 6/2/2003]
That "washer" is in fact the pilot of your 13" THM400 torque converter. This is a fairly common failure with this unit, I have replaced hundreds of them myself. Unfortunately, it is not a job for the typical home mechanic.
You need a new or rebuilt converter.
[Modified by 45ACP, 7:04 PM 6/2/2003]
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 2
From: Beaverton, OR
Re: Torque Converter Alignment Washer Doodad? (45ACP)
mrvette: Pretty sure that washer does belong there as I had my father ask a mechanic friend about it, only problem is that the message kept getting scrambled, or he didn't ask for enough information... He forgot to ask if it is necessary, so I posted the question here :crazy:
Was afraid so... Time for an upgrade :D So is the pilot used for alignment of the torque converter? Any recommendations on a good stall for this combo:
110 ° center line
488/495 lift (1.6 ratio correction = 520/528)
230/230 duration @ .050
TH400 coupled to a 3.08 Rear
-Note that I ran a machine shop for eight years that re-built torque converters-
That "washer" is in fact the pilot of your 13" THM400 torque converter. This is a fairly common failure with this unit, I have replaced hundreds of them myself. Unfortunately, it is not a job for the typical home mechanic.
You need a new or rebuilt converter.
[Modified by 45ACP, 7:04 PM 6/2/2003]
That "washer" is in fact the pilot of your 13" THM400 torque converter. This is a fairly common failure with this unit, I have replaced hundreds of them myself. Unfortunately, it is not a job for the typical home mechanic.
You need a new or rebuilt converter.
[Modified by 45ACP, 7:04 PM 6/2/2003]
110 ° center line
488/495 lift (1.6 ratio correction = 520/528)
230/230 duration @ .050
TH400 coupled to a 3.08 Rear
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,341
Likes: 6
Re: Torque Converter Alignment Washer Doodad? (dath)
"So is the pilot used for alignment of the torque converter?"
Yes, absolutely. You must NOT use that unit without the pilot. There is Big Trouble(TM) to be had by those that ignore this advice.
"Any recommendations on a good stall for this combo:
110 ° center line
488/495 lift (1.6 ratio correction = 520/528)
230/230 duration @ .050
TH400 coupled to a 3.08 Rear"
Without knowing what use you have in mind for the car? No, sorry.
Yes, absolutely. You must NOT use that unit without the pilot. There is Big Trouble(TM) to be had by those that ignore this advice.
"Any recommendations on a good stall for this combo:
110 ° center line
488/495 lift (1.6 ratio correction = 520/528)
230/230 duration @ .050
TH400 coupled to a 3.08 Rear"
Without knowing what use you have in mind for the car? No, sorry.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 2
From: Beaverton, OR
Re: Torque Converter Alignment Washer Doodad? (45ACP)
"So is the pilot used for alignment of the torque converter?"
Yes, absolutely. You must NOT use that unit without the pilot. There is Big Trouble(TM) to be had by those that ignore this advice.
Yes, absolutely. You must NOT use that unit without the pilot. There is Big Trouble(TM) to be had by those that ignore this advice.
"Any recommendations on a good stall for this combo:
110 ° center line
488/495 lift (1.6 ratio correction = 520/528)
230/230 duration @ .050
TH400 coupled to a 3.08 Rear"
Without knowing what use you have in mind for the car? No, sorry.
110 ° center line
488/495 lift (1.6 ratio correction = 520/528)
230/230 duration @ .050
TH400 coupled to a 3.08 Rear"
Without knowing what use you have in mind for the car? No, sorry.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
Re: Torque Converter Alignment Washer Doodad? (dath)
I not argueing the use of the washer there, guys, I you say so....but in all the old Pontiac, OLds, and now my SB chebby '89 truck block with 700r4, I have never seen anything other than the concerter large center **** sliding into the crank and that was it.....slid home and spins into position to bolt to the flex plate....same thing on most *** cars too....that damn washer looks like a pilot bushing type thing on a stick shift, and as such with an automatic tranny/torque converter, I do not see the need of it....what specific function does it do???
makes NO sense to me at all....
GENE
makes NO sense to me at all....
GENE
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: Newport News VA
Re: Torque Converter Alignment Washer Doodad? (mrvette)
I not argueing the use of the washer there, guys, I you say so....but in all the old Pontiac, OLds, and now my SB chebby '89 truck block with 700r4, I have never seen anything other than the concerter large center **** sliding into the crank and that was it.....slid home and spins into position to bolt to the flex plate....same thing on most *** cars too....that damn washer looks like a pilot bushing type thing on a stick shift, and as such with an automatic tranny/torque converter, I do not see the need of it....what specific function does it do???
makes NO sense to me at all....
GENE
makes NO sense to me at all....
GENE
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Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 2
From: Beaverton, OR
Re: Torque Converter Alignment Washer Doodad? (arrio76)
That torque converter is not an original factory item. It is a Re-man. The metalic gray paint indicates that. Also the same torque converters were used on other engine applications. Some units from the re-manufacturer had washers welded on like the one here for the pilot alignment.
mrvette: I'm not arguing either, I am just stating what I've been told so far. I really don't know what the real answer is yet...
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: Newport News VA
Re: Torque Converter Alignment Washer Doodad? (dath)
[QUOTE]So we have determined that this is indeed the pilot... So do some converters somehow not need the pilot for alignment then? I'm very confused :confused: QUOTE]
All converters need a provision for alignment to the crankshaft. Each application could be a little bit different. I've seen washers, cups and studs in the center of the converter. (different cars) But they all had some form of centering device. If it weren't there, a severely out of balance operation would result. There is no way to center the converter well enough on the flywheel plate just using the three or four attatchment bolts/nuts.
All converters need a provision for alignment to the crankshaft. Each application could be a little bit different. I've seen washers, cups and studs in the center of the converter. (different cars) But they all had some form of centering device. If it weren't there, a severely out of balance operation would result. There is no way to center the converter well enough on the flywheel plate just using the three or four attatchment bolts/nuts.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,341
Likes: 6
Re: Torque Converter Alignment Washer Doodad? (arrio76)
"That torque converter is not an original factory item. It is a Re-man."
You are probably right, it has probably been re-built, but that IS a stock turbo 400 converter.
"The metalic gray paint indicates that."
Probably right, most converter re-builders paint them after re-building. The General never did. This does not mean that somebody, perhaps an overly enthusiatic owner, didn't paint the thing at some point. Those things have been around a few years now and there is no telling what may have been done to them.
"Also the same torque converters were used on other engine applications."
That style unit certainly was, but they tweaked them with slightly different impellers to get different stall speeds. Small block Chevy, big block Chevy, Pontiac 455's, Jaguar V12's, Rolls-Royce V8's, Cadillac V8 in FWD's, etc, etc . . . lots of different uses for sure.
"Some units from the re-manufacturer had washers welded on like the one here for the pilot alignment."
As I mentioned above, that unit is OEM style for sure, but I've seen "washer" style pilots on aftermarket high-stall stuff that were highly modded. Except for THM400's, I don't recall any on other OEM units.
[Modified by 45ACP, 7:37 PM 6/3/2003]
You are probably right, it has probably been re-built, but that IS a stock turbo 400 converter.
"The metalic gray paint indicates that."
Probably right, most converter re-builders paint them after re-building. The General never did. This does not mean that somebody, perhaps an overly enthusiatic owner, didn't paint the thing at some point. Those things have been around a few years now and there is no telling what may have been done to them.
"Also the same torque converters were used on other engine applications."
That style unit certainly was, but they tweaked them with slightly different impellers to get different stall speeds. Small block Chevy, big block Chevy, Pontiac 455's, Jaguar V12's, Rolls-Royce V8's, Cadillac V8 in FWD's, etc, etc . . . lots of different uses for sure.
"Some units from the re-manufacturer had washers welded on like the one here for the pilot alignment."
As I mentioned above, that unit is OEM style for sure, but I've seen "washer" style pilots on aftermarket high-stall stuff that were highly modded. Except for THM400's, I don't recall any on other OEM units.
[Modified by 45ACP, 7:37 PM 6/3/2003]
