Confused about timing--
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,023
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From: TEXASTEXASTEXASTEXAS TEXASTEXASTEXASTEXAS
St. Jude Contributor
Confused about timing--
Man, this car can make me feel stupid.
Had the distributor out, trying to get the car running right. Couldn't get it running at all with the engine at TDC, rotor pointing at #1 cylinder. Finally got it running by retarding the hell out of the timing, and it's running fairly well with the engine at TDC and the rotor pointing at #2 cylinder! What the heck? Big block firing order is same as small block, isn't it (#1 on driver's side front?). What am I too stupid to see here? Even if the dist. is off a tooth, for it to run the rotor's gonna point at #1, right?
JB
[Modified by JB, 3:49 PM 6/18/2003]
Had the distributor out, trying to get the car running right. Couldn't get it running at all with the engine at TDC, rotor pointing at #1 cylinder. Finally got it running by retarding the hell out of the timing, and it's running fairly well with the engine at TDC and the rotor pointing at #2 cylinder! What the heck? Big block firing order is same as small block, isn't it (#1 on driver's side front?). What am I too stupid to see here? Even if the dist. is off a tooth, for it to run the rotor's gonna point at #1, right?
JB
[Modified by JB, 3:49 PM 6/18/2003]
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Living in the Hartland
Re: Confused about timing-- (JB)
Doesn't matter where the rotor point it's where the rotor and plug contact meet. So if you have the #1 plug wire on the cap near your heater core then that is where to rotor will be when the contact is made and a spark will occur in the #1 cylinder. Could also be your outer ring has slipped on your balancer.
Le Mans Master
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From: Hoosier
Cruise-In III Veteran
Le Mans Master
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From: Orlando Floriduh
Re: Confused about timing-- (JB)
What happened? Why did you need to remove the ditributor. Usually when a car is running good and the all of a sudden you can't get it started and by moving the distributor a tooth it runs but very poory with no power.... the problem turns out to be a jumped timing chain. If you have the GM gears, the upper sprocket has nyon teeth that break apart. I hope that is not you problem but.... food for thought. I do agree that the balancer could have slipped on the outer ring. Mine flew apart driving.... I rebuilt mine with a strip of new rubber and urethane epoxy sealant. I had a press but I had to make some tooling to do it. It was a real challenge but I wanted to keep the original and I did not want to spend big bucks for a replacement. Ours are an uncommon size and quite expensive... even then they look different.
[Modified by bluevetteman, 7:14 PM 6/18/2003]
[Modified by bluevetteman, 7:14 PM 6/18/2003]
Drifting
Joined: May 2001
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From: Holly MI
Re: Confused about timing-- (JB)
Are you sure it's pointing at #1 while the engine is at TDC of the compression stroke? Just because the engine is at TDC, that doesn't mean it's on the compression stroke. Make sure the valves at #1 aren't open. It's an easy mistake to make, but also easy to fix. Good luck.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: TEXASTEXASTEXASTEXAS TEXASTEXASTEXASTEXAS
St. Jude Contributor
Re: Confused about timing-- (bb69)
Fevre: I should have said the rotor is pointing to the #2 tower on the cap.
Billtogo: Thanks for the link, but I used Lar's guide to get where I am, step by step.
Bluevetteman: Pulled the distributor because I wanted to do several things, including pulling the manifold so I could clean it up and installing an adjustable vacuum advance and a new stop for the mechanical advance, both of which are damned hard to do with the dist. in the car.
bb69: pretty sure I've got that right--both valves are closed at TDC and the rockers are loose so I can wiggle them.
It actually runs pretty good with the rotor pointing close to #2 tower at TDC, which makes me think something funky's going on with my balancer. If the timing gear was FUBAR, it wouldn't run well wherever I had the timing set, would it?
JB
[Modified by JB, 6:44 PM 6/18/2003]
Billtogo: Thanks for the link, but I used Lar's guide to get where I am, step by step.
Bluevetteman: Pulled the distributor because I wanted to do several things, including pulling the manifold so I could clean it up and installing an adjustable vacuum advance and a new stop for the mechanical advance, both of which are damned hard to do with the dist. in the car.
bb69: pretty sure I've got that right--both valves are closed at TDC and the rockers are loose so I can wiggle them.
It actually runs pretty good with the rotor pointing close to #2 tower at TDC, which makes me think something funky's going on with my balancer. If the timing gear was FUBAR, it wouldn't run well wherever I had the timing set, would it?
JB
[Modified by JB, 6:44 PM 6/18/2003]
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Orlando Floriduh
Re: Confused about timing-- (JB)
You are correct...You wouldn't be able to get it running right if the timing chain jumped. It would run but with a lot of power loss and maybe some backfiring. I was just making suggestions, not knowing the whole story. Most likely the dampener ring has slipped. Both inner and outer halves should be on the same plane looking from the side. If the outer ring is even slightly rearward the the inertia ring has moved. Another dead giveaway is rubber squished out between the two pieces. PS. Notice the the bottom helical driven gear if you take the distributor apart so you can put it back in the correct spot.. It can go two ways..180 deg. apart but one direction won't allow you to clock the distributor correctly. The roll pin goes between two teeth one way and if you rotate the rotor shaft 180 deg the pin will be centered on a tooth. I don't remember which is correct but I do know that it has to be right or the vacuum advance will hit the firewall or the shield. Just a heads up.
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: TEXASTEXASTEXASTEXAS TEXASTEXASTEXASTEXAS
St. Jude Contributor
Re: Confused about timing-- (bluevetteman)
Thanks, Larry. I was wondering how the heck I was going to figure out if the balancer was the problem. If it's slipped, I'll probably be hitting you up for hints on how you fixed yours--I'd kind of like to keep the original, too.
I don't want to miss the tuning party with Lars this saturday. Do you think if I just tune it by ear, it'll be close enough to make a 120 mile round trip without problems? I suppose if it overheats or pings, I could pull over somewhere and advance or retard as seemed indicated.
'Course, I don't know what the heck Lars can do for me when the timing mark's useless!
JB
[Modified by JB, 8:38 PM 6/18/2003]
I don't want to miss the tuning party with Lars this saturday. Do you think if I just tune it by ear, it'll be close enough to make a 120 mile round trip without problems? I suppose if it overheats or pings, I could pull over somewhere and advance or retard as seemed indicated.
'Course, I don't know what the heck Lars can do for me when the timing mark's useless!
JB
[Modified by JB, 8:38 PM 6/18/2003]