Oxygen Injection? Stop me before I do something stupid!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,000
Likes: 22
From: Boulder Creek California
Re: Oxygen Injection? Stop me before I do something stupid! (pillowmeto)
hmm, hydrogen, oxygen.... add some Solid Rocket Boosters and a silo-like fueltank and you've got yourself a space shuttle.
-Chris
-Chris
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,205
Likes: 1
From: "Too Low, Too Fast, Too Loud" TX
Re: Oxygen Injection? Stop me before I do something stupid! (RUXperienced)
Uh...no. I am a Registered Respiratory Therapist and you don't want 100% Fio2 no where near you combustion chambers or intake..the heat alone will signifcantly increase the Fractional Oxygen level so high the a huge fire would surely erupt. Have seen a few accidents with pt's...oxygen...and cigarettes..not a pretty site. Room air oxygen levels are at 20.9%, we usually just round this up to 21% Fractional Inspired O2 in the medical field. You have what is called Medical Grade Air which is equal to still...21% Fio2.
But when you start talking about 100% Fio2 and entraining that into a combustion engine..that is crazy..no insult intened..Just Yikes!! Any how a E cylinder of 100% Fio2 was not cheap! Look at or think about some other method..this one is just too dangerous to even consider.
Hope this helps...take care!
Joe..peace <*)))>< :nono: :nono:
But when you start talking about 100% Fio2 and entraining that into a combustion engine..that is crazy..no insult intened..Just Yikes!! Any how a E cylinder of 100% Fio2 was not cheap! Look at or think about some other method..this one is just too dangerous to even consider.
Hope this helps...take care!
Joe..peace <*)))>< :nono: :nono:
Thread Starter
Cruising
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: Chico CA
Re: Oxygen Injection? Stop me before I do something stupid!
Thanks for the replies! I do now remember the whole oxygen and oil danger thing now, it slipped my mind for some reason. I was only thinking of adding a small amount of oxygen into my air supply, you know, not as much as a nitrous system adds. However I do realize that my engine will burn hotter.
I just want a few extra HP as I'm sure most of you want, without the cost of a nitro setup. But I don't want to destroy my favorite toy, my vette. Thanks again.
Has anybody heard of anyone doing this before?
I just want a few extra HP as I'm sure most of you want, without the cost of a nitro setup. But I don't want to destroy my favorite toy, my vette. Thanks again.
Has anybody heard of anyone doing this before?
Racer
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 438
Likes: 0
From: Houston, Texas
Re: Oxygen Injection? Stop me before I do something stupid! (bluevetteman)
Yep, this is why they tempered the idea by using NOS. It takes a bunch of heat the crack the molecule to get the good stuff. I would suspect that running O2 would cause the fuel to immediately flash (oxidize) when it contacts the O2 and cause a fire in you manifold. Had some training on LOX while in the service. Really BAD stuff.
Drifting
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,651
Likes: 13
From: Holly MI
Re: Oxygen Injection? Stop me before I do something stupid! (noskillz)
Here's a good illustration. Ever used an oxy/aceteylene cutting torch? You know, you heat the metal up a little with the basic torch, and then you push the lever and molten metal goes fluing everywhere, usually right into that spot above your shoe so it burns your foot? The the part you're cutting falls to the ground. All you're doing when you hit that lever is adding more oxygen to the flame. If you inject O2 into your engine, you better watch your feet becuase molten metal will be flying everywhere!
All this being said, don't think you're the only to wonder this. I wondered as well until I learned how to use a cutting torch. :eek:
All this being said, don't think you're the only to wonder this. I wondered as well until I learned how to use a cutting torch. :eek:
Advanced
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
From: Saint Marys GA
Re: Oxygen Injection? Stop me before I do something stupid! (pillowmeto)
Working from Jim's numbers & idea, if you assume that your engine needs 750 CFM (QJet rating) at 5500 rpm, and the AIR pump is rated at 12 cubic INCHES per revolution, that equates to turning that little pump at 108000 RPM (which would require at 19.6 to 1 drive pulley) and this just gets you to the same air into the engine at what it "sucks" normally. This is why superchargers are so much larger than the AIR pump.
Instructor
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
From: Santa Cruz CA
Re: Oxygen Injection? Stop me before I do something stupid! (mfendley)
How about this:
Forget using atmospheric air. Use only compressed air (21% Oxy) and fuel in a sealed intake. A one cubic foot bottle compressed at 3,000psi would equal 60 cubic feet at 50psi, or 103,680 cubic inches, enough to spin a 400" motor 518 revolutions. A 1/4 mile at an average of 4,000rpm in 10sec a motor would spin 667 revolutions, so maybe two or three bottles would be all you would need. With 50psi of cold air in the intake, you should be able to make a LOT of power.
Wouldn't using compressed air eliminate the explosion hazard and provide an awsome intercooling effect as well?
:leaving:
Forget using atmospheric air. Use only compressed air (21% Oxy) and fuel in a sealed intake. A one cubic foot bottle compressed at 3,000psi would equal 60 cubic feet at 50psi, or 103,680 cubic inches, enough to spin a 400" motor 518 revolutions. A 1/4 mile at an average of 4,000rpm in 10sec a motor would spin 667 revolutions, so maybe two or three bottles would be all you would need. With 50psi of cold air in the intake, you should be able to make a LOT of power.
Wouldn't using compressed air eliminate the explosion hazard and provide an awsome intercooling effect as well?
:leaving:
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Verdad Gallardo
Race Director
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 10,258
Likes: 1
From: Calif.
Re: Oxygen Injection? Stop me before I do something stupid! (LemansBlue68)
Ever seen pure Acetylene burn in air??? Ever seen Acetylene burn in the presence of Oxygen???
The reason everyone uses Nitrous rather than pure Oxygen is that pure oxygen will cause the flame temperatures of the combusting gasoline to be MUCH too high. Nitrous also provides Oxygen to the combustion process, but in a more controlled state so that the flame temperatures are lower. Also with Nitrous, additional fuel is added as well to keep the mixture from becoming too lean and , the whole objective with Nitrous is to burn more fuel with every power stroke than the engine could ingest on its own by running in a naturally aspirated state. Nitrous also increases the burn rate of the fuel so ignition timing must be retarded accordingly. I'm afraid significant levels Oxygen would behave accordingly, even to the point that the fuel "explodes" rather than burning at a controlled and consistent rate.
The reason everyone uses Nitrous rather than pure Oxygen is that pure oxygen will cause the flame temperatures of the combusting gasoline to be MUCH too high. Nitrous also provides Oxygen to the combustion process, but in a more controlled state so that the flame temperatures are lower. Also with Nitrous, additional fuel is added as well to keep the mixture from becoming too lean and , the whole objective with Nitrous is to burn more fuel with every power stroke than the engine could ingest on its own by running in a naturally aspirated state. Nitrous also increases the burn rate of the fuel so ignition timing must be retarded accordingly. I'm afraid significant levels Oxygen would behave accordingly, even to the point that the fuel "explodes" rather than burning at a controlled and consistent rate.
I don't know whether injecting compressed oxygen would help much. But a tank of liquid oxygen (LOX) might deliver quite a bit of bang for the buck. (So to speak.) :lol:
Racer
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
From: Sanford Florida
Re: Oxygen Injection? Stop me before I do something stupid! (noskillz)
LOX :yesnod:
Saw 320lbs of that eerie blue crap poured onto 40lbs of charcoal. Holy Crap!!! maybe 5 seconds and 40 LBS!!! of charcoal was gone (so was the grill) :cool:
Saw 320lbs of that eerie blue crap poured onto 40lbs of charcoal. Holy Crap!!! maybe 5 seconds and 40 LBS!!! of charcoal was gone (so was the grill) :cool:
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,154
Likes: 1
From: I blame my Dyslexia MD
Re: Oxygen Injection? Stop me before I do something stupid! (boredsoIstrokedit)
youd get some serious speed, now if you could only get all of the parts to go in the same direction, and maybe stay together.
MAtt
MAtt
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,925
Likes: 0
From: Paradise City
Re: Oxygen Injection? Stop me before I do something stupid! (pillowmeto)
This Thread Is Great :rofl: :rofl: Seriously though, take the advice and learn from the lessons of the past. Pure Oxygen will either kill you and flatten your neighborhood before you get down the street, or you'll destroy your engine because it will burn so hot. If you really want to freak people out, get Nitrous, and paint the bottle green and put the O2 stickers on it. :thumbs: :lolg: :lolg: :lolg: :lolg: . P.S. I see your in Chico-I'll stop by and videotape it!
[Modified by 79Corvette02, 8:05 AM 9/17/2003]
[Modified by 79Corvette02, 8:05 AM 9/17/2003]