Well the time is almost here. The 502 will go on the dyno a week from today, I can hardly wait. I went up today to see it all assembled minus the intake and boy did it look pretty. While is was there I watched a 12.5 to 1 615 cube getting broken in. What a site. (See my related post on that one). Here is my combo, take your guesses and win the prize for the closest guess. Also would like to thank Jim (427 HotRod) and Joe(Flareside) and Mountainmotor and all the otheres for your help over the last year or so. I always enjoy reading what you have to say.

502 honed .004 0ver to 4.47 bore
SRP 17cc dome 10.2 to 1 Pistons
zero deck
Clay Smith solid flat tappet 304 Adv. 258 at .050 .615 lift on a 108 LSA installed on a 105.25 I.C.
Jesel shaft rockers 1.8 intake and 1.7 exhaust
AFR 315 CNC heads 121 cc chambers
Holley Strip Dominator Intake
950 HP carb
Eagle +.250 H-beam rods with the L19 rod bolts
GM forged crank, internal balance and knife edged
Compression ratio came right in at 10 to 1. I wanted to go a little higher but was talked out of it.

What do you think? Engine builder guessed high 500's to maybe 600. Remember this is an engine dyno.

 

I think it will turn more than that. Those AFR heads flow great. a good ignition and I bet it makes around 675 easy if not more once tuned.

 

I agree with the above, although I do not have experience with engine dynos.

But knowing what my combo made which is significantly milder than yours (and I'd hazard a guess that mine would be in the 540-550hp range on an engine dyno), yours should be at least 100hp more than mine given more CR, bigger cam, more rpm, and a bit higher flowing head combo (I have the AFR 305s with CNC'd chambers, as cast ports).

 

Good luck at the dyno Bill! Like everybody else, I think your engine builder is being conservative, but I'd be conservative too if people were paying me for dyno results and time. I'll guess 650hp at around 6400.

 

That is going to be a great street engine, I think it will be in the 650 hp range. Could have made more with a roller, but then you give up some reliability. Your 10 to 1 compression will not hurt you, but it could have handled 10.5

The 108 lsa will cost a little top end power, but make more tourque in the mid range. I would have probably installed it at 108 (straight up) but 3 degrees is not noticable by the butt dyno.

Throttle responce is going to be instant with your combination, again great high horsepower, high tourque tire fryinjg street engine. Has the power to run 10's for sure

Is this motor going into a car with an auto or a stick

 

He's being conservative! But that way you'll be VERY happy.

I have a buddy with a homebuilt 502. 10.0 compression, stock length rods, heavily ported GM iron oval ports. He's using a Lunati hyd roller in the .610 or so range with 255* or so duration @.050 on a 112 LSA I think. He has a Dart intake and a 950 HP.

It made 610 HP operating stock belt driven water pump and 2 headers. it really liked 2 1/8 tubes and eventually he played with it long enough to get it to the 625-630 or so level.

You have MUCH better heads, a little less intake (try a carb spacer...I bet it likes it!) and the only thing I don't know for sure on is the cam. I don't know how aggressive Clay Smith ones are, but I'll defer to MM's experience and assume he picked a strong one.

I'm going to stick with everyone else and guess 662.1@ 6200 rpm! If you throw a Dominator and a bigger intake with a roller cam, you could be in the 700 range pretty easily.

It will be interesting to hear some numbers. AFR recently did one with a ZZ502 where they installed milled 315's, a .660 something roller and a Big intake an carb and swear they got 740 out of it! With less than 9.5 compression!

It will be great to see numbers from another dyno. I have my sincere doubts about that Westech dyno they use out there. They get numbers much larger than anyone else in the country!

Good luck and we're all really hoping for 700!


JIM

 

John and Wes, you are another of the guys that have really helped me with your thoughts as well. Thanks again. For the moment I am going to run this motor with my Muncie and try to nurse it along until I put a Tremec in it. Hopefully the Muncie will live for a little while. When I talked to Tony at AFR he thought the combo would make around 650 as well with my intake being a limiting factor. I played around with the Dynamic compression formula and it looked like I could get away with 11 to 1 but my builder really didn't want to see me get that high. Should be a fun ride anyway. Bill

 

I'm really looking forward to your numbers, since those are the heads I want foy my Big Block. :D

My guess 665hp. :thumbs:

 

Jim, I read a post on another forum somewhere on that ZZ502 you are talking about, really impressive. Yea I guess I am losing some on the intake. I would love to throw at least a Victor Junior on there but John(69N.O.X.) said it wouldn't fit even with my L88 hood. We will see if I end up wanting more which is really likely since I keep reading about your monster. If I hit the 650 mark I will be singing in the streets. My builder really likes the AFR's as well. He said for an out of the box head it is better than the Dart, Brodix and so forth however he still likes the Dart 360 for all out engines although he admitted he hasn't seen the big AFR yet. He said he is looking forward to seeing what we get. As an interseting side he said my motor was the hardest balancing job he ever had. He had to add 10 pieces of heavy metal to internally balance the thing. 500 dollars later I guess I should have left it external. Oh well. Now if those sidemount Hookers will only fit, everything will be perfect.

 

I'll guess 638 Hp. What do we win A ride in it :jester

 

I spoke to a guy this weekend at Super Chevy with a beautiful '69 Camaro. It was a Dart blocked 540 with AFR 315's on it. 10.0 comp. .690 lift 268/272 on 110 LSA roller, Victor intake, Dominator etc. He was running it with an auto, 4.11 gears, slicks and 3" full exhaust out the back with 2" headers.

It was a real street car, full interior etc with power steering, console etc. Probably weighed at least 3450-3600 lbs or more without driver.

He said it made 775 hp@ 6300 rpm or so and he was running 10.70's@127 mph.

So there's no doubt you heads can flow the air to make some power. There isn't much difference in the Victor jr and the Strip Dominator height other than the carb pad is angled to help clearance in the front. I know of another 540 Vette being assembled here on the Forum with a Victor jr and AFR's that has been milled on the carb pad to make it the same height as the Holley intake.

You could severely port on the Holley to make it flow some more.

I think some good tests would be with one of the Edelbrock C-454(dominator) or C-427 (4150) type dual plane intakes. They are pretty short but have nice big runners. I've seen 9 sec runs made with them in full bodied cars. I almost bought a C-454 one this weekend for the heck of it at the swap meet.


JIM

JIM

 

Jim brought up a good point. If the motor falls a little short you could always have the intake worked, in the hands of a guy who knows what he is doing there is an easy 30 + hp there.

I do not know what the ramps are like on the Clay Smith cams either, but most cams ground on a 108 are designed with performance in mind, so I assume it will be stout. The fact MM endorses it makes me think it is very stout, he likes those flat tappet solids

When you finally get the Tremec or other tranny I would shoot for about a 10 to 1 first gear ratio. My 454 probably makes around 620 hp and with my Richmond and a 10.2 overall first gear ratio it is ideal. Your motor will make more power than mine, especially in the lower rpm range

Make sure you have lots of open road in front of you the first time you stand on it, and be ready to shift it, is going to rev much quicker than you can imagine. :chevy

One last little note, I agree with Jim the Westech dyno is very 'freindly"
740 hp out of a 502 with less than 9.5 :rolleyes:

 

Hey Bill, did you get the new Jesel SS rockers? I didn't know if they made them to fit the AFR heads yet. Did you buy them directly from Jesel? I'm still considering that option, even though I don't really need them at my current power level. You know how it goes, do it once and do it right. Spend $300+ now for decent rockers now, then maybe need an upgrade later, or spend $700 and forget about it. I'd rather spend the $700 now, then to buy regular rockers and need a girdle later. You don't know if they'll fit under stock valve covers, do you?

When will the car be back on the road? Can you make the Mahwah show in late October? I can't wait to see that thing shake the fenders.

My parts should be back from the machine shop later this week, so I'm getting closer too!

 

Jim and John, I just ordered a Vic Jr for the hell of it from Summit as I can always return it but I want to see if it can be made to work once and for all. Joe, Jesel does have the sportsman series for the AFR heads now but I went for the full competition setup as I really wanted the 1.8 intake and I will have them forever. I know its way more than I need but what the hell and it looks like it will fit under stock valve covers. I don't think the car will be ready by Mahwah but I will certainly be there for inspiration. Hope to see you.

 

I'm going to guess 672!

What brand of tires do you use? I'm going to invest heavily in that tire company, because with that engine, you'll be going through rubber at record pace!

Sounds like a great setup. Can't wait to see the results.

 

:lol:





[Modified by Turbo-Jet, 2:15 AM 9/25/2003]

 

Rear wheel HP, 400hp and 500 torque, maybe. The power train very poor on C3's sucks power like crazy. Keep-us posted

 

[QUOTE]That is going to be a great street engine, I think it will be in the 650 hp range.


:lol:

What do you mean by that :confused: Do you think the motor will make more or less power

As for the rwhp #'s my 454 makes somewhere around 620 hp and it made 491 rwhp through full exhaust.

 

Bzzt. Missed this one. :)

My combo (454ci) makes 434rwhp/450rwtq and it will be a good 100-150hp shy of his. He's got more cam (meaning more rpm potential), a slightly higher flowing head (I have AFR 305s), and a higher flowing intake. Mine makes peak HP at 5600rpm and pulls hard to 6400 (drops only 20rwhp by that point :) ), but his will pull way higher than that.

 

oh nothing, i don't doubt the estimate at all. just found it funny that '650 hp' and 'street engine' used in the same scentence :crazy: