Cool, now you need a digital camera so we can all drool over your stuff :)

Here's my trans tunnel, hard to see but it's much wider than stock, these are old pics, the tunnel is now even wider than in these pics. Lots of hammerforming (carefull, that steel likes to shear)


After all is done I''m going to make a cover plate out of fiberglass and seal and pop rivet it in place (or i may install nut plates, simpeler for when removal is needed) It looks a bit rough in the pic.

 

My digital camera should soon be here. I ordered one for work and can use it personally evenings.
TwinTurbo that doesn't look like your usual work? You are as neat or neater then I am.

[Modified by norvalwilhelm, 4:31 PM 11/5/2003]


[Modified by norvalwilhelm, 4:33 PM 11/5/2003]

 

Yeah, I'm a neat freak, can't stand rust. Everything is pwodercoated, repainted and all bolts are either new or zinc plated. As for the floor, I wasn't quite pleased with it either but as said, the metal shears real quick. Most of the dents were already there. A long time ago I didn''t have time to fix the ball joinys on my car yet had to have it inspected the other day so I dropped it off at the local GM (opel) dealership. That was the first and last time someone else worked on my car. When I got it back the fuel tank was empty, the door locks were shot, the fuel pump went dead when I was around the corner and I had a strange sound when I stepped on it. Turned out someone lowered the lift with the tool trolly under there and they dented the entire floor to the point where the u joints would slam right through it.

Those a-holes never paid a dime for the reparis, all I got away with was not paying for the (minor) repair they did :(

I made it as pretty as I could:




The dents are real obvious here, pic taken before any work to the floor was done:


Here's the mess they left, the hole is caused by the u joint hammering all the way through.


It now is a lotcleaner than in that pic, it was taken just after hacking out that section of metal



[Modified by Twin_Turbo, 5:00 PM 11/5/2003]

 

TwinTurbo I can't stand rust either. Like you I constantly use new bolts, I like the gold plated ones, grade 8 and up.
I also can not stand bend pieces and I can imagine your discust when they dented your floor.
I do all work at home. The last time I had an alignment in 69 I was told my 428 had a miss at 7000 when out test driving to check the alignment. Never again has anyone worked on my muscle cars, never.
I finished one coil over tonight, finished welded, ginding, test fitting and it is now being painted. I will give it a couple of coats then install the completed coil over , set the car down, check it out then do the other side.
This is now my 7th attempt but I have it right now so it will not take long for the other side. I will then fabricate and install a rear sway bar then move to the front for a complete going over.
I will use a coleman sway bar with splined ends. It will all be custom machined parts.

 

TT, i swapped out tires today and took a couple minutes to eyeball that rear suspension. i can't, for the life of me, figure out how you can move the rear diff up more than ~1". and that seems pretty generous. unless your talking about cutting the fiberglass :nono:
would a modification like the c-4 with two forward pick-up points reduce the radical toe changes we get? i understand how that could be really undesirable but it seems the inherent negative camber gain through compression would be advantagious under hard cornering. if the toe was relatively fix and, say, a 6-link type system that still incorporated the camber gain be superior?
while i was at it, i took a look at the front again and it appears that there would be a way to fabricate new upper a-arms with inner pivot points 1.5-2" lower than the original. the biggest obstacle will be some form of a bracket adapting the new mounting points to the frame without major surgery.

 

advantageous :rolleyes:

 

if it comes down to cutting fiberglass I won''t mid, I'll just cut it. I said raise 3/4" and I''m pretty sure that can be done without modding the glass. I'll have to check again, I bolted my diff under the frame with the body now on it, I have lots of room to snoop around and I can measure how much room there really is.

As for a c4 type trailing arm setup, it''s not the 2 rods that give the benefit, it''s the 2 hinge points. The 2 rods are there to keep the hub from moving, the 2 hinge points allow for the suspension to move and not change toe like on our trailing arm with 1 hinge point. the Neg. camber is good but not if it''s all over the place. I''m not sure what you''re running but the bushings in the rear all deflect a lot, as does the stock camber bracket. For a stock trailing arm setup, and taking the toe change for what it is, a sperical bearing in the trailing arm would be the best solution.

 

Gentlemen,
I've been following these two suspension posts with interest. I certainly can't contribute much, but I do enjoy the discussion.

I've had my trailing arms out, and I was surprised at how flimsy they seemed to be. Wouldn't there be some deflection just from the trailing arm itself?

BTW I put poly bushings in for the trailing arm and the strut rods in the back (while running rubber up front).

When you say the stock camber bracket deflects, are you referring to the piece that mounts to the differential that houses the eccentric cams for rear camber adjustment? Or am I confused?

Thanks, GM

 

Yes, the arms can distoprt quite a bit, it''s not uncommon for an arm to get bent. A simple solution is to comkpletely weld the seams so it''s a rigid box, from the factory it''s spot welded to save money.

Yes, the camber bracket is the bracket that mounts the camber rods with the cam bolts. The cam bolts don't hold their setting very well either if you do some hard driving, eliminating the cam bolts with throgh bolts and threaded rods (either spherical = best for rigidity; or rubber/poly ends) would be a better solution.

 

i took a pek at the batwing and I forgot, you have to notch the frame to mount it higher...ugh, more complexity :(




[Modified by Twin_Turbo, 10:21 AM 11/6/2003]

 

TwinTurbo I am still bothered with moving the rearend up. I know my corvette prep books talks about it but with our 26 inch or so driveshafts a small angle change causes vibration. Moving the rearend up 3/4 inch makes a big difference over 26 inches.

Guys remember the transmission points down so the rearend must point up an equal amount for zero vibration. http://www.streetrodderweb.com/tech/0203sr_driving/


[Modified by norvalwilhelm, 11:38 AM 11/6/2003]

 

I have also been reading these suspension threads with great interest. I'm curious why more people haven't talked about relocating the inner A-arm mount. This also raises the roll center, and it doesn't require cutting and welding a spindle. I just got done doing this to my Camaro. Dick Guldstrand came up with this mod (or at least made it popular), and Camaro guys have been doing it for years. The Ford guys also do it and call it the Shelby mod. As a matter of fact, Guldstrand will still provide the template. It means drilling new holes and doing a little trimming to the frame (mounting ears only) but it takes about half an hour.

I have a suspension analyzer and ran the stock vs Guldstrand numbers, and the roller center was raised several inches. The camber gain was also much improved, with a couple degrees of negative camber at full jounce vs positive camber. By moving the mounting holes down AND back, you can also add in more caster. What do you guys think? I will have to take a look at the Vette to see if the mount allows the room like the Camaro does.

Ken

 

bb69 our car's inner upper A arm mount is on an angle and it is difficult to move the holes lower
On the camaro you have a straight piece of metal so cutting the top off it and moveing the hole lower is simple.
We would have to totally rebuild/modify this area. No simple cut and redrill.
If we could move the holes lower it would pull the top of the A arm in causing alot of camber gain with no way of making it back to close to 0 without longer A arms.

 

This is kind of off the main subject: But Norval have you come across any front coil overs that can be used with our stock A-Arms? I've been able to find aftermarket tubular setups.

I just want the ability to quickly change the front ride height.

 

Norval, what do you mean? If you raise the diff, the pinion will raise too. That will make the driveshaft angle a little less (with horizontal), so what? just jack up the rear trans crossmember a little. If you move the diff 3/4"" you will only have to raise the trnsmission a tiny amount in the rear. It''s just pythagoras''s stuff, the engine mounts are the point of the triangle, the diff pinion is the opposite straight (vertical), that one is reduced by 3/4 inch, that translates into a height change of the trans mount that is always less than 3/4"". I'm not too worried about that. The urethane mounts I have now can easily take that (I have tried it).

Norval, the upper arm mounting holes can be lowered a tiny bit, not much but a bit is possible. I however don''t think that tiny amount will bring much, the solution would be either remove the stock mount for an aftermarket mount or cut off the stock mount, chop off 3/4 inch or so and weld it back on.
The camber gain won't be a problem with adj. arms, just make the arm longer.

George, look at carrera shocks, they have a semi coil over for GM cars, the vette is not listed but I''d be VERY surprised if that setup does not fit our chassis. The lower control arm won''t be the problem, the shock mount won''t either. I think the only potential problem is the coil spring. Maybe they come in several lengths.

 

This is kind of off the main subject: But Norval have you come across any front coil overs that can be used with our stock A-Arms? I've been able to find aftermarket tubular setups.
George I haven't looked into front coil overs at all. I bought a set of rear and made my own mounts and I assume a little modification is needed for the front. I would never trust the 2 5/16 bolts on the front to hold the entire weight of the front end so if I went that route I would beef up this area.
Maybe after I get the rears working fine I will break down and do the front. I am not a fan of the buggy spring in the front.
I am quit happy with the front as it is but you do not have the quick height adjustment.

 

Twin Turbo I did alot of work last year on aligning the rearend. I had strings run down the center of the drivetrain and found the rearend didn't even point straight ahead. It was badly off to one side. I also raised the transmission mount, modifying the floor slight and still the transmission pointed down hill towards the rear. The rear also pointed down and this is wrong so I reduced the size of the mount in front of the rearend causing the pinion to point up. I would be afraid to move the rearend up another 3/4 inch and not being able to raise the front mount an equal amount.
I run a 3 inch driveshaft since I twisted 2 stock replacements badly in just a few miles so my tunnel is full of driveshaft and doesn't have another 3/4 inch to be raised. I ground a bit of fiberglass as it is to clear the universals with the rear in the stock location.
If I pulled the motor and got in the engine bay I could easily cut out the stock A arm mounts and make/fabricate something different to lower them but with the motor in place I couldn't do a good enough job.
If the motor ever comes out agian then I will do it.
I am starting a spreader bar soon with welded in mounts but to do the inner mounts now is not something I will tackle.

 

Have any of you thought about converting to C4 or C5 suspension in the front. I realize this would require alot of work but then again some of hte mods you guys are doing and talking about doing on the C3's suspension also require a lot of fabricating.

I have been thinking about doing this to mine in the future along with the rear suspension from a C4. I know a couple companies will make an entire new chassis for our cars which the newer suspension will bolt up to. And if you have the equiptment it could be done yourself as well.

I realize this project would be very time consuming and expensive as well but I was curious if you guys are verry familiar with the C4's stock suspension. I know the C3's suspension isnt designed verry well at all and was wondering if the C4's suspension would be a big improvment or if youd find youself modifying the suspension from the C4 like were doing with the suspension in our cars.

Kevin

 

71vettman I find it easy to take one piece off at a time and modify it, put it back and start on the next piece. To cut the entire front suspension off and start over would scare me. Any piece that I modify could be put back with a stock piece if I ruin it and by carefully checking after each modification you gain confidence in your work.
Also buying a C4 suspension has got to cost alot while modify any parts for me at least in relatively inexpensive.
Well not cheap if you consider the cost of the equipment to do the modification.

 

I have thought about it and dropped it, the problem is the suspension width, it would mean you''d have to run neg. offset wheels like the C4 to keep it under the fenders, and as far as I'm concerned neg. offset wheels on a c3 = YUCK

A C5 front and rear susp. would be totally awesome, especially the rear since it's double a arm too.