The install went well, but its not truly over yet. I'm experiencing the opposite of the binding that is frequently discussed and solved by pulling back the steering column.

Instead, I think my steering column is a little short. I have the steering shaft support bearing fully extended on the gusset in order for the splines on the U-joint to reach the steering column.

Is it possible to push the steering column inward toward the engine bay? It would seem that bending the gusset towards the firewall might also help, maybe a thick shim would work, but I'd rather solve the problem the right way.

The weird thing is that all I've read about Steeroids, and even their directions, leave you expecting to have to shorten the steering column by moving it back. I don't have any binding, and the system looks like it's going to be great, once I get beyond this issue.

Experts please chime in. Thanks.

:cheers: :smash: :cheers: :smash:




[Modified by foundvettelifeisgood, 7:26 PM 11/15/2003]

 

The pix came through for me like it was not finished decoding the details from what it did show, itlooks as if the column shaft is not extended enough...take a vice grips, clamp them on the shaft and pry/hammer/pull the shaft out about 2 inches.....should be relatively easy....once freed up...I think it got shoved up in the collapsed like position accidently when getting the old box out....

GENE

 

Gene,

I thought I felt it move back when I was taking off the old rag joint and pulling out the old box, but I didn't see it happen and figured I was imaging things. I'll see what I can do to bring it out some. Any danger of breaking the collapse feature?

Jay :smash:

 

NO, not to worry about he collapse feature, as the movement of any collision is not 'end on' to the input shaft...so if you collapse it a bit, or now in your case extend it again...no sweat.....

when I installed my junkyard column in '95 or so...I sat it on the output shaft on the floor...and the thing collapsed,....I figger it was an accident car...
at any rate the thing pulled out really easy, and has been fine since...

no clunking/weird noises or loose steering....there is a plastic injected in there to provide stability, and may have been a tab in place too, which is not all that important in my case...still stable.....

pull it out again, you be fine....

GENE

 

I agree with Gene. It sounds like your column has been collapsed. Also, the same adjustment under the dash that is used to move the column backwards can also be used to move it forwards. Make sure the column is fully extended first before you move it front or back.

 

That steeroids setup looks dangerous. Look at all those joints on the steering shaft. Does anybody have this installed? I'm really curious to know if it binds at all, that thing just looks akward to me.

 

Actually, it looks like something right out of Terminator 2. :cool: It's a fine piece of techno-art. :lol:

 

One would not pass vehicle inspection (yearly) here with something like that. The binding is a thing that has always concerned me too, since there''s quite a bit of flex in the frame and the suspension setup. A lot of people have installed it and I don''t think there are problems.

 

Jay, the heim joint looks like it is touching the header. Other wise, I wish I had the same setup in my car. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

I think I'll pass on the steeroids setup for now, unless anybody has any better pics of it installed and in working order, I just really wanna see that thing up close before I drop over a grand on it.

 

i...for one have it and i would NEVER go back...
that type of "knuckle" steering has been around for ages on race cars and is dependable and safe in my opinion...
just my 2 cents... :)

 

FOR YOU NA SAYERS, YOU MUST NOT GO TO ANY CAR SHOWS. LOOK AT ALL OF THE STREET RODS. IT IS THE SAME THING. I HAVE STEEROIDS ON MY CAR, I LIKE THE NEW CAR FEEL. YOU GUY JUST STAY WITH THE 30 PLUS YEAR OLD SET UP. I WOULDN'T GO BACK TO THAT FOR NOTHING. BUT THATS MY THOUGHTS

 

We're not deaf over here :cheers:

 

Certainly a straight shot with minimal angles is best with no added friction or lost motion. However, even some production vehicles have used a three joint intermediate shaft. The right hand drive Jeep Grand Cherokee which is sold in Europe is one that comes to mind.

Also some Japanese pickups have even used what we called a "mitre gearbox" that changes the intermediate steering shaft direction by over 90 degrees. The Toyota Tacoma and an early Nissan pickup each had one. With a "mitre box" you are even changing the direction of rotation so you have to reverse the location of the pinion as it engages the rack to get the car to turn in the correct direction.

Question for Twin Turbo - What do you mean by a 9X9 rack? Is that the tie rod lengths?

From a end take off, R&P design standpoint, the most important dimension is what we call the "ball to ball'. (The distance between the inner tie rod joints.) In between the ball to ball you have to package the pinion with the rack teeth set for the amount of travel that you need. With a power gear you now have to have distance to install the hydraulic seals and then the assist piston which is the power portion of the rack assembly. This piston also has to travel the same amount as your rack travel. Then more hydraulic seals and a internal rack support on the passenger end. When you get done packaging this base rack, now you are left with some distance from the inner tie rod joints out to the steering arms.

So when you get done designing your rack with its ball to ball dimension, you are really locked-in as to maximum tie rod lengths and worse yet, you really are locked into the location of the pinion where it intersects the rack. Now you have to hope that the pinion isn't sticking into an engine block. As a rack and pinion manufacturer, you have the luxury of tipping the pinion at various angles to try and miss vehicle hardpoints. You have to design new pinion and rack teeth to match your new design angle. When you get all done with this, you now have to run some kind of intermediate steering shaft to connect the rack and pinion to the steering column. That is why you have three joint I-shafts and mitre boxes.

BTW, I have a listing of over a hundred rack and pinion gears with the ball to ball distances, tie rod lengths, etc. The gears are from all the major car companies from around the world. The bad news is that what I have is a reduced copy of a chart that I am afraid won't scan very well. Also I am going to be gone on vacation for the next two weeks. So unless someone else wants to transcribe it manually while I am gone, it will have to wait.

Jim Shea

 

9x9 is 9 inches from the center of the rack to the center of the inner socket assembly (pivot point)

 

I just reviewed my data sheets with about 120 power rack and pinion gears on vehicles in production from 1990 through 1998. There are no power rack and pinion gears with a ball to ball less than 21.8 inches. Here are the four gears with the shortest ball to ball.

Toyota Corolla 23.2 ball to ball 5.1 travel 3.25 turns lock to lock rear steer
95 Peugeot 306 21.8 ball to ball 5.5 travel 3.3 turns lock to lock ?
92 VW Passat 21.8 ball to ball 5.7 travel 3.25 turns lock to lock front steer?
92 BMW 3 series 22.8 ball to ball 5.9 travel 3.5 turns lock to lock front steer

All of the others are in the 24 to 28 inch range for the ball to ball distance.

I don't have any information on manual rack and pinions. You could definately get a shorter ball to ball if you didn't have to package the assist cylinder in series with the rack. However, don't forget as the ball to ball gets smaller, the pinion intersection gets moved closer and closer to the centerline of the car.

Wish I had better news for you.



[Modified by Jim Shea, 8:30 PM 11/18/2003]

 

ball to ball?? do you mean steering balljoint? That length doesn''t matter, the tie rod length can always be changed. The pivot point on the rack is what''s importat. Those 2 (one each side) has to intersect EXACTLY with the line from lwoer arm crossshaft to upper arm cross shaft, that''s the only way to get absolute 0 bump steer on the rack.

To my knowledge the E36 M3 rack is 3.2 turns lock-lock

 

What we called ball to ball is inner socket to inner socket.

The BMW M3 most likely has a faster overall ratio than the standard 3 series.

 

M series indeed have a faster ratio.

Marck


[Modified by Twin_Turbo, 5:08 AM 11/19/2003]

 

Well, when I started this project I looked al the junkyards for a rear steer rack, and first one I found that looked as if it may work was out of a Ford Taurus, there are posts to that affect some 2+ years ago...well seems the knuckle to knuckle on the vette is near 48 inches, and the Ford rack was as Jim says every long, I played with mounting it, and did a very crude mock up, and immediately found that 9 inch tie rod length just did not work too well, the toe changes were very HORRENDOUS, so much so that even this newbie to suspension design could see this was NOT going to work....
then someone, Jim maybe, said Grand Am.....for the CTO rack.....so I found a great one with iron lining in the junkyard from a '92 GA.....

well anyway, I could see a race rack at 18" long, but as Jim says, the input would be crazy what with all them joints, may take 4-5 of them....I would say that's excessive....;-)))

but mystery to me is, I have not thought to look at any more Taurus' in the yards, so if Ford found the length fine, why is it so much wider than the vette, talking about 8 inches total there, and maybe even more,....that a LOT....

at any rate I"m declaring mine DONE on the rack anyway....I do want to play with taller spindles though....

and I just gotta compliment Norval there on a totally stock looking like its been cast by GM even yet...spindle, look at that pix guys, talk about art, that's it....freaking Mike Angelo got nuttin on Norv there......

kGENE