[QUOTE] I never said he took the Vette through the gears, what I did say was that I believe the C5 driver was surprised at what the truck could do. QUOTE]

Perhaps the Vette wasn't even AWARE he was being raced??? ;)
:lolg: :lolg: :lolg:


Dep

 

To answer your question, yes, the Corvette knew he was being raced; he initiated it even. My friends truck is loud and maybe the Corvette was just egging him on to see if the performance was equal to the throaty exhaust, who knows? I'm not just some ricer who comes here and picks fights with people by fibbing about beating a car and then doing some stupid fly-by crap.

13 seconds? Not easy? I'm not talking about cars only on this forum, I mean any car; a brand new car, an old car. Heck, even that Dodge SRT-4 clips in with a 13.9. If you want a smallblock, the 1996 Grand Sport posted a 13.7, that's still in the 13s. A '99 Vette can do high 12s/low 13s. Check out other cars listed on this site, that's where I got my sources from.
http://www.autofacts.ca/classics/fast.htm

Just because he can afford to break his cars doesn't necessarily means he wants to, or takes pleasure in doing it. I know I don't enjoy it a whole lot when I break my belongings.

I'm not going to continue to argue any more points with you. I'm not getting my point across, maybe you can't read into what I'm saying, maybe I can't break it down any further... etc. etc. We're not communicating as well as we could be. We can throw words at each other back and forth and nothing will be accomplished. It seems like you've got horsepower tunnel vision and I only want to make a point that there is a use for torque; a use more than just for trucks and SUVs. I like horsepower and I like torque both. For street cars and other applications, it's more practical to have a car with more torque than horsepower.

Do one thing, spend the $5 and change for the Hot Rod issue on sale now (January 2004). There is an article where they explain both horsepower and torque. It's a rather informative piece, but only if you go into it not begrudging one or praising the other.

 

I give up to. I will agree to disagree. You keep changing the parameters of your discussion...now to include ALL cars in the universe. This IS a Corvette Forum and that's what I was trying to focus on. I don't CARE about "other cars". I don't read car magazines because most of the articles and test reports are slanted towards the advertisers IN the magazines. And if you think 13's are easy to get into, then you sure don't have much expereince with ANY cars. I stated early on that I prefer horsepower over tork. NOTHING you say is going to change that. I don't WANT to change. Do you????

I'm done.

Dep

 

Don't give up, get creative!

I have both DD200 and Drag 2000. I had some fun designing a 785 cid torque monster motor and a Dep Special 302. The mega BB has 888 pounds of torque and 350 horse power, the Dep Special has 888 horse power and 350 pounds of torque. The 785 is pretty much done by 3000 rpm while the Dep Special (ready for F1) doesn't shift until about 15,000 rpm.

I have set up the parameters for my 69 using the ROD 6 speed with 3.27 1st gear, 3326 pound car with mild race tires and aggressive driving style.

With 3.08's in the rear, the 302 only needed 1st and 2nd gear at 10.127 seconds and 143 mph trap speed. Changing the rear to a more optimal 4:1 brought the time down to the 9.7's at 144 using 3 gears.

The 785 ran a 12.4's at 108 mph using all 6 gears. Changing the rear to a more optimal 2:1 brought the time down to 11.73 at 114 mph.

Gentlemen, choose your engines!

:steering:

Chuck

 

WHOOOO HOOOOO!!!!!

Gimme that Z-28 motor and I'll toss my 454 in the garbage pile!!!!!

:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

Make sure it has an aluminum block. Might as well make it light as a feather too! :D :D :D

Dang it Chuck...now I'll be up all night with visions of 302s dancing in my head!

Dep

 

Dep,i guess that would probably be a non stock crank/rod/piston combo for those 15,000 rpm flat changes.....john :eek: :eek:

 

HUH??? :confused: :confused:

Dep

 

No less stock than the bore and stroke I used to get 785 cubes :lol:

The key to the small block is that even though it has a lot less torque you can use much lower gears (higher numerically) and keep them in each gear for a very long time, relatively.

Neither engine would be worth a darn on the street. One is perfect for Bonneville, the other is perfect for hauling cattle up a mountain pass. Where you find perfection is a simple matter of personal taste. Two days ago I was talking to a guy running his CJ5 on a chassis dyno. He made 380 pounds of torque but only made 230 rwhp. he made more torque than he expected, but a lot less horsepower. I asked him if he ever revved much over 4000 rpm. He said no. For him, there was nothing to be gained by making a higher horsepower motor. He liked crawling up steep mountain roads. His potent little small block was perfect.

My L88 literally pushes you into the seat when floored at 100mp in 4th as hard as you would get with a normal 200-250hp car anywhere in 1st gear. I am on the edge of adhesion with T/A radials. I like the L88 because it has the high revving personality of a small block, yet still sticks you into the seat like a big block should.

Most would prefer the more gentle personality of a lower rpm, high torque engine compared to my L88. Whose happiness or preference is better? It really doesn’t matter! You build your engine, and I will build mine and we will both be happy! There is lots of middle ground, about 11,000 rpm worth in my two examples.
:cheers:

chuck

 

Sweet Dreams!

p.s. I heard a rumor that you sound like a Harley with bad plugs when you sleep. Any truth to this?

 

Hey Chuck, Steve keeps bringing up your L88 clone whenever we get together and work on my car, I gotta check that thing out some time.

I'd also choose the smaller of those engines but I'd modify it. I do like having power but I don't praise one or the other as being better, I like having two different animals under my hood.

Gearing is another ballgame to add into a car's performance. I trust everyone still remembers the '87-'92 Mustang 5.0 cars. A lot of the acceleration in that machine is gearing. As one of my friend's says, "You breathe too hard and you're practically at the end of 1st gear." Using gearing you can make up for a deficiency wherever in the band it may be.

With my comparison in Gran Turismo 3, I left each car with the same amounts of horsepower but got different levels of torque. I didn't get to choose where the power peaks were, nor did I choose anything about how much torque each would receive.

Below is my experiment listed again. I drove each car 6 times, threw out the worst time and averaged the remaining 5. I did this 3 times through (for a total of 18 runs, 15 averaged) running a different car first, second and third in each session. I turned off traction control and tried different launch techniques. My cars had the stock Viper T56 transmission and stock rear gears that are programmed into the game (2.66 1.78 1.30 1.00 0.74 0.50 and differential gearing of 3.07:1.) All three cars weigh 1531 kg or 3375 pounds.

Viper 1 = 799 HP @ 5000 RPM 1186 TQ @ 4000 RPM (told it via a computer program that it had 799 HP stock) Average 400m = 10.568
Viper 2 = 799 HP @ 5000 RPM 1149 TQ @ 4500 RPM (turbocharged it via the computer program) Average 400m = 10.630
Viper 3 = 799 HP @ 5400 RPM 1095 TQ @ 4400 RPM (built it up using Viper parts from within the game) Average 400m 10.664

On a side note, 400m is roughly 7 feet 4 inches short of a true quarter-mile, but they're close; 402m would be even closer.

Chuck, what if we could up that 888 HP / 350 TQ engine to the ballpark of 888/590, 888/740, and 888/1000 or so? I'd also be interested in knowing the RPM at which each is made.

Another thing on my mind was to take the total power of 888 + 350 and average the two. 1238 divided by 2 = 619. Using a grand total of 1238, what about an engine making 750/488 or 600/638?

 

Check this out: Formula One engine by BMW:

http://www.sportnetwork.net/main/s107/st33345.htm

Very impressive numbers, and cool pics, too!

 

Impressive, but they still didn't beat Ferrari :)

Dep

 

God this will never die... :blueangel:

 

Well, since there aren't very many of us who run in heads-up classes (compared to the bracket racers), I'll choose the one that runs the number all day long. 11.50? 12.20? 15 flat? Any of those will be fine so long at it's repeatable and consistent within a few thousandths over and over and over and over...