oh yea love gettin' tweeked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i look at it like 1hp here & there if i
do it 30 place's and the other guy don't,,,, see ya' dah hah..

 

Why fiddle with tiny incremental increases that aren't economical? You will spend $200 to get 1 or 2 horsepower? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Dep

 

That's what we call "TWEEKED"!!!!!! :rofl:

Why fiddle with tiny incremental increases that aren't economical? You will spend $200 to get 1 or 2 horsepower? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

NO WAY!!! :nono: If he has a stock intake and goes to "anything" aftermarket (hi-rise), he'll find at least a 15 maybe up to a 25 hp gain for that $200 then by tweeking the carb, that's where you'll get your 2,3,5 hp gains. Hey due certain changes I made to other parts of the car, I went from the AIR-GAP back to my single plane Team G (which also has an air-gap) and picked up almost .5 second ( changed my stall converter from a 2600 to a 3500) so I no longer needed the hp at lower rpm because the converter got me out of the hole.

 

I've read a number of magazine dyno tests that pretty much all say
the air gap is usually worth just a few hp - like 2 to 5 - over the Perf RPM.
And I believe you'd see a little longer warmup periods till it gets to running smoothly.

Being originally from MN, I would personally say that being better able to
drive it in marginally cool weather would take precedence over 2 to 3 hp.

I guess it's all in how you want to use it. I've been debating for my own
buildup (in SE MO) and being I want to drive it year around, I decided on
the versatility of the non-airgap for max street driveability.

 

Don't forget, the air blowing UNDER that carb isn't coming from OUTSIDE where it's nice and cool. With the hood closed on a warm day, that measureable difference will be a LOT less. Certainly NOT 30 degrees of temp. If you REALLY want to cool things off where it counts put a spacer between the carb and manifold. Chevy sells a metal plate that goes under the carb to reflect away heat (heat RISES you know) :)

The air swirling around your engine compartment on lets say an 85 degree day is 135 degrees(figuring hi) and the "water" temp (depending where your sender is located... properly at the cyl head) 180 degrees. Well I figured hi on the compartment temp and right there is almost 50 degree difference. It's "common sense" (oxy-morone) an AIR-GAP intake will run cooler than a standard hi rise intake. As long as you have hood clearence it's the deal. I am ending it hear, if you do not get it by now :banghead: I don't know what else to tell you. But it looks like a couple of the other guys understand what I am trying to explain. :crazy:

 

yep dude we got it. the world ain't flat.. lol....

 

Well DUUUHHHH!! I was talking about performance gains BETWEEN the manifolds. As in Performer RPM vs Air Gap. Picking up seconds can NOT be ONLY attributable to "tweaking " your carb. Weather conditions, condition of the track, etc., can ALL make that amount of change you mention. You'll need to get your engine on a dyno to find out what switching manifolds and tweaking carbs does. And "tweaking" a carb will NOT cause you to gain any 5 HP if the carb is already the right one for your motor and is adjusted correctly. If you mean by "tweaking", CHANGING to a bigger carb, then yes, you can up the horsepower. Changing jets and adjustments just AIN'T gonna do it.

Stall speeds do NOTHING to increase horsepower at all and have no place in the discussion.

Dep

 

So why stop at a half-butt air gap? The air gap is for guys who think they can have their cake (good cold weather performance) and eat it too (good race performance). Edelbrock seems to have brainwashed you and a few others to believing this. Your choice...ain't no money outta my pocket. I plan on REALLY raising my carb via a Holley Strip Dominator manifold and a nice big hood scoop. Believe what you want. Spend all you want. "There's one born every minute"...you are proving that saying.

Dep :nonod:

 

is there a open area under the plenium base and the lifter valley on that intake ?

 

Oops..my mistake. Got the wrong name. It's called Pro Dominator...

http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin...SM/300-45.html

I THINK there may be an openning under it...not sure though. :D

Dep

 

yep that's a little to much for a mild driver . it also is open to the air

 

I do not have documented info to compare one vs. the other. I just know that there is not _that_ much difference in cost (at least where I got mine), and when I was upgrading my heads and installing a hotter cam, I was going to do an intake of some sort.

When you're doing an entire combo, why stop short, even if the gains are incremental? 5hp? I don't know what it is. But I got the Air-Gap and the car runs like a raped ape. I do have an L88 hood. I do not have the air intake hooked up to it, but at the very least its a good heat extractor. Simple laws of thermodynamics would say the Air-Gap would allow for cooler intake runners. Whether its enough cooler to make a difference on a given application, or whether that application is modded enough to take advantage of it... I cannot say for sure.

I just know that I like what I've got. :D

 

Wes: My point was folks don't really KNOW what their gains, if ANY, are gonna be. They are using theory and best guesstimate. Without dyno proof in a controlled environment, seat-of-the-pants postulations are pretty much worthless. And I'd want dyno proof from somewhere OTHER THAN Edelbrock or a magazine that has Edelbrock as one of it's advertisers. I'm not much on dyno stuff, but this is one case where I think it would be a valuable tool.

Of course, if people are buying it strictly for "coolness factor", as in popping the hood at their buddy's house, that's something entirely different :D

Dep


[Modified by Dep, 3:56 PM 12/3/2003]

 

You mean different just like everybody else eh? :jester

 

I understand. :) That's why I wanted to make it clear that I really cannot answer the question quantitatively when comparing one to the other, except to say I was pleased with how my end result turned out.

 

Wes: Understood my friend :)
:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

Now I just gotta get you to take off those funky looking wheels on the old Vette :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dep :D

 

Here's the only dyno-tested info I could find. It was performed at Westech Performance Group, and used an engine dyno. You can find the results in the Oct. 2003 issue of Corvette Fever. Sometimes the mag is full of fluff, but sometimes they actually have some interesting reading.

The engine was as follows:
355ci
10.0:1 CR
AFR 190 heads
"mild Comp Cams hyd. roller cam" (no specs listed)
BG 750 Mighty Demon carb
MSD ignition

They say that this motor is good to the upper 6000rpm range, so this thing is no slouch.

Performer
Avg. TQ: 406
Avg. HP: 365
Peak TQ: 430 @ 4500rpm
Peak HP: 438 @ 6100rpm

Performer RPM
Avg. TQ: 407
Avg. HP: 367
Peak TQ: 429 @ 4700rpm
Peak HP: 454 @ 6500rpm

Performer RPM Air-Gap
Avg. TQ: 413
Avg. HP: 372
Peak TQ: 437 @ 4800rpm
Peak HP: 457 @ 6300rpm

Victor E
Avg. TQ: 400
Avg. HP: 362
Peak TQ: 422 @ 4900
Peak HP: 464 @ 6500

Super Victor
Avg TQ: 403
Avg. HP: 365
Peak TQ: 426 @ 4800rpm
Peak HP: 465 @ 6300rpm

Victor Jr.
Avg. TQ: 400
Avg. HP: 362
Peak TQ: 421 @ 4800rpm
Peak HP: 465 @ 6400rpm

Obviously the dual plane intakes were better on the bottom end in every case to ~6000rpm. Depending on gear selection and shift point rpm the owner would choose, the Air-Gap would outperform all the intakes on THIS given motor for a street motor that is rarely spun past 6300rpm. If it was a drag-racer shifting at 6600+ every time, then the single planes win out.

Again, this is not a near stock 350. And the Air-Gap just barely outperforms the RPM in the same powerband.

Hope this is useful to somebody.

 

Dep,

Find me a 17" Rallye wheel that is just as light as these Boyds and doesn't cost me an arm and a leg (after all, I'm sure there's someone who would custom make me a set), and I'd consider it.

nah, not really.

I have yet to run into someone in person who didn't say the wheels look great. In fact, most people remark about the wheels without me soliciting for an opinion. It is hard to find a good-looking 5-spoke design that doesn't look great on these (or any) cars... at least that's my opinion. :D

 

Wes: I'm just yankin your chain ;)
Only 5 spokes I like are the old Crager S/S or the old 5 spoke rims with black spokes and aluminum wheel. I'm a traditionalist :D

Dep

 

RPM Air Gap is a very good intake that is comparable to good single planes up top and still maintain the desirable characteristics of a dual plane, I just swapped mine for Victor Jr. but did a cam change at the same time but I think if I put the Air Gap back on i would not notice any power loss whatsoever. :D