What do production records really mean?
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Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: Huntsville, AL USA
What do production records really mean?
My brain has yet again wandered to esoteric subjects? My new question is: What do Chevrolet production records really mean.
Case in point, the production records for 1973 indicate that 4 cars were produced with the YJ8 aluminum wheel option. To the best of my knowledge, we have yet to identify a single 73 Vette that was actually delivered with these wheels. But the production records say that 4 cars were produced with this option.
Now to my question: What do the Chevrolet production records really say? One theory is that four cars were ordered with the aluminum wheel option, AND THE BUYERS DID NOT GET A REFUND ON THE PRICE OF THOSE WHEELS. This would mean that the production records indicate that Chevrolet was paid for four sets of these wheels as part of the vehicle purchase.
Now, I know that many people attempted to order these wheels, and those orders were changed to delete the aluminum wheel option. I also know that a stop order was in effect, telling dealers that the wheel was unavailable. This order was accidently lifted for a four day period in October of 1972. Orders were transmitted to the assembly plant during this four day period that included the YJ8 option. I have a copy of the notice from Chevrolet telling dealers that the stop order was accidently lifted, and that the wheel availability remained uncertain.
Were four cars ordered during that four day period with the YJ8 option included, and the buyers paid for the YJ8 option, but never actually got the wheels?
So, my question remains: What do Chevrolet production records really say?
Anybody? Thoughts?
Case in point, the production records for 1973 indicate that 4 cars were produced with the YJ8 aluminum wheel option. To the best of my knowledge, we have yet to identify a single 73 Vette that was actually delivered with these wheels. But the production records say that 4 cars were produced with this option.
Now to my question: What do the Chevrolet production records really say? One theory is that four cars were ordered with the aluminum wheel option, AND THE BUYERS DID NOT GET A REFUND ON THE PRICE OF THOSE WHEELS. This would mean that the production records indicate that Chevrolet was paid for four sets of these wheels as part of the vehicle purchase.
Now, I know that many people attempted to order these wheels, and those orders were changed to delete the aluminum wheel option. I also know that a stop order was in effect, telling dealers that the wheel was unavailable. This order was accidently lifted for a four day period in October of 1972. Orders were transmitted to the assembly plant during this four day period that included the YJ8 option. I have a copy of the notice from Chevrolet telling dealers that the stop order was accidently lifted, and that the wheel availability remained uncertain.
Were four cars ordered during that four day period with the YJ8 option included, and the buyers paid for the YJ8 option, but never actually got the wheels?
So, my question remains: What do Chevrolet production records really say?
Anybody? Thoughts?
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,606
Likes: 839
From: PA
Re: What do production records really mean?
Hey Ed... Good to see you posting in this forum!
It's a good question and one that I'm sure very few people have really taken the time to think about.
My understanding about the numbers generated for the production records were generated when an order was placed for a car intended for sale. I don't believe that they are completely accurate, nor do I believe that they are all inclusive... The engine production figures bear this out. St. Louis never kept track of base engines installed in Corvettes... Just the optional units are listed in the production figures. People try to back into the base engine number by eliminating the optional units (and usually do it incorrectly) and just assume that the number is correct. Fact is, we just don't know.
Your aluminum wheel option is an excellent example... I always liked to use the 1969 ZL-1 as a good example. You'll find many people will say with some authority that there were only two ZL-1s built; a Daytona yellow coupe and a CanAm white coupe. Unfortunately, there isn't enough information available to make this statement with complete certainty. The production records show that two orders were placed for cars to be built for sale. That number may or may not be accurate as we have no way to correlate the serial numbers for the two cars claimed to be "real" back to the production records and until we do, that is always going to be an issue. The Daytona yellow coupe owned by Roger Judski is certainly real, but is it one of the two claimed cars? Since the production numbers were generated through corporate and this car was produced internally for the plant manager at the time, one has to wonder (I doubt anyone ever took the time to interview George Heberling about this... He might be able to answer a few questions). If that car isn't included in the production totals, then maybe it's the white coupe and another car (or two, or three)... Or maybe the white coupe isn't real at all (although I haven't seen anything at this point to convince me that it couldn't be). Without serial numbers tied directly to those production figures, we'll never know... And even then there will be issues.
Unfortunately, the current production records are the best we've got. Hopefully, Jim Mattison will be able to work out whatever problems he has encountered with GM corporate and then maybe we'll get a fresh look at what was actually built.
Regards,
It's a good question and one that I'm sure very few people have really taken the time to think about.
My understanding about the numbers generated for the production records were generated when an order was placed for a car intended for sale. I don't believe that they are completely accurate, nor do I believe that they are all inclusive... The engine production figures bear this out. St. Louis never kept track of base engines installed in Corvettes... Just the optional units are listed in the production figures. People try to back into the base engine number by eliminating the optional units (and usually do it incorrectly) and just assume that the number is correct. Fact is, we just don't know.
Your aluminum wheel option is an excellent example... I always liked to use the 1969 ZL-1 as a good example. You'll find many people will say with some authority that there were only two ZL-1s built; a Daytona yellow coupe and a CanAm white coupe. Unfortunately, there isn't enough information available to make this statement with complete certainty. The production records show that two orders were placed for cars to be built for sale. That number may or may not be accurate as we have no way to correlate the serial numbers for the two cars claimed to be "real" back to the production records and until we do, that is always going to be an issue. The Daytona yellow coupe owned by Roger Judski is certainly real, but is it one of the two claimed cars? Since the production numbers were generated through corporate and this car was produced internally for the plant manager at the time, one has to wonder (I doubt anyone ever took the time to interview George Heberling about this... He might be able to answer a few questions). If that car isn't included in the production totals, then maybe it's the white coupe and another car (or two, or three)... Or maybe the white coupe isn't real at all (although I haven't seen anything at this point to convince me that it couldn't be). Without serial numbers tied directly to those production figures, we'll never know... And even then there will be issues.
Unfortunately, the current production records are the best we've got. Hopefully, Jim Mattison will be able to work out whatever problems he has encountered with GM corporate and then maybe we'll get a fresh look at what was actually built.
Regards,
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,143
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Re: What do production records really mean? (Rowdy Rat)
.....You'll find many people will say with some authority that there were only two ZL-1s built; a Daytona yellow coupe and a CanAm white coupe......
http://www.corvettes-musclecars.com/...9ZL1/index.htm
Also, I've noticed that 'options' required to order an engine package or part of a performance package are sometimes recorded separately from a specific RPO. Maybe it's because anything other than Regular Production Number is just that.....it's special :confused:
In another thread I mentioned that 1700+ vettes in 1968 were ordered with RPO F41 (heavy duty suspension).....but they're were 13,000+ Big Block cars that were required to have components from the F41 package like the larger / stiffer springs. So "overlaps" make everything confusing. :crazy:
