Duracool as a r-12 replacement?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 930
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix Az
Re: Duracool as a r-12 replacement? (bossman)
If the system works good and you have no leaks I would stay with R12 in an R12 system. Cools much better and was what the system was designed to use. :cheers: :seeya
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,608
Likes: 3
From: TEXAS - you mean there are other states?
Re: Duracool as a r-12 replacement? (phxraptor)
THe fact that R12 may cool a bit better (5 degrees) is not worth the worry of leaks in the A/C. As I will be doing in my COrvette, I just got done updateing my 72 MOnte Carlo with R134a and it cools fine. Really - the worry of spending $major cash for freon is just not worth it. PLus - they have alternative products now...Freeze 12, etc - although I cannot comment on them personally
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,720
Likes: 12
From: Chattanooga TN
Re: Duracool as a r-12 replacement? (kaiserbud)
As I have said before so I will say again-use only R12 or R134. Stay away from the blends! R12 and R134 have molecules that are the same size. If you have a leak you can replace what is lost. The blends have molecules as different in size as BBs and ping-pong *****. When the "BBs" leak out you have to completely evacuate and recharge the system to regain balance. All this R12 paranoia is amusing too. It's not that expensive. Whats a $100 A/C charge in a $10k+ probably car?
[Modified by markdtn, 9:23 AM 4/21/2004]
[Modified by markdtn, 9:23 AM 4/21/2004]
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,751
Likes: 2,499
From: Buckeye, AZ
St. Jude Donor '12-'13
Re: Duracool as a r-12 replacement? (markdtn)
I agree......Relatively, it's not that expensive to simply recharge the R-12. I have a buddy who's a Chrysler mechanic. It's $70.00 a pound, and he says most cars take 1.5 to 2 pounds. To keep the car orginal if you so desire, is cheap. Has anyone every tried the new kits for around $40? I am told that the kits gives you new valves, lubricant and the coolant. I am told they work just fine, and are an inexpesive changeover alternative. They now sell these all over, so I would guess they do work.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,720
Likes: 12
From: Chattanooga TN
Re: Duracool as a r-12 replacement? (gliot1)
Yes, I've used the kits. There is nothing wrong with a properly done R134 retro, but R12 is still relatively cheap. The C3 Vette A/C system is marginal so you need all you can get.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 15,136
Likes: 477
From: NM
Re: Duracool as a r-12 replacement? (bossman)
Has anyone try duracool in there a/c yet? Or heard of someone who has? Any info would be great.
Are you referencing "Duracool 12a". If so, the EPA says it is an Unacceptable Substitute on their web site at http://www.epa.gov/spdpublc/snap/ref.../macssubs.html
They say it is a "Flammable blend of hydrocarbons" and that they have "insufficient data to demonstrate safety"
tom...
[Modified by Tom73, 12:50 PM 4/21/2004]
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Race Director
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 15,136
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From: NM
Re: Duracool as a r-12 replacement? (BB wowbagger)
Isnt R12/R22 forbidden to use since they destroy the Ozonlayer?
tom...
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Denver Colorado
Re: Duracool as a r-12 replacement? (markdtn)
As I have said before so I will say again-use only R12 or R134. Stay away from the blends! R12 and R134 have molecules that are the same size. If you have a leak you can replace what is lost. The blends have molecules as different in size as BBs and ping-pong *****.
[Modified by markdtn, 9:23 AM 4/21/2004]
[Modified by markdtn, 9:23 AM 4/21/2004]
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 4,101
Likes: 10
From: NorCal
Re: Duracool as a r-12 replacement? (Garrett1972)
This is part of my line of work. We converted our entire fleet of R-12 systems to R-134a as they failed. the previous poster is correct that late systems use barrier hose (it has a hard nylon liner), but our experience shows that good used R-12 hoses are so saturated/impregnated with refrigerant oil that they work just as well. Replace the dryer, add the right amount of ester100 oil after cleaning out the old stuff, evacuate and charge it up. Any other problems are the same for both types of refrigerant.
Also, we have found that some sytems actually cool better with r134a! My original '69 system cools to 38 degrees on r134a, but it could use more fan volume.
All the blends use some form of propane. BOOM! And if they tell you r-12 and r-134 are flammable as well, understand that it is only true while they are under pressure. As soon as it vents (leaks) they are inert. Blends will blow even if vented. Hope this helps.
Hans
Also, we have found that some sytems actually cool better with r134a! My original '69 system cools to 38 degrees on r134a, but it could use more fan volume.
All the blends use some form of propane. BOOM! And if they tell you r-12 and r-134 are flammable as well, understand that it is only true while they are under pressure. As soon as it vents (leaks) they are inert. Blends will blow even if vented. Hope this helps.
Hans
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 881
Likes: 1
From: Hernando MS
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07
Re: Duracool as a r-12 replacement? (bossman)
I have tried Duracool and Freeze 12.....DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY!!!
I have a VIR valve system and didn`t want to convert to 134...so I tried the R12 alternatives...I was very disappointed and couldn`t get better than 65 degrees out of the vents.I bought a few cans of R12 off of Ebay and now have 45 degree temps. :hurray:
I have a VIR valve system and didn`t want to convert to 134...so I tried the R12 alternatives...I was very disappointed and couldn`t get better than 65 degrees out of the vents.I bought a few cans of R12 off of Ebay and now have 45 degree temps. :hurray:
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,720
Likes: 12
From: Chattanooga TN
Re: Duracool as a r-12 replacement? (Garrett1972)
What I meant was that all the molecules in a volume of R12 are very similar sized and all the molecules in a volume of R134 are very similar sized. The molecules in a volume of a blend are not! Yes, the R12 and R134 molecules are different sized and cannot be mixed.
I too have had good luck with conversions and stock hose.
[Modified by markdtn, 11:28 AM 4/22/2004]
I too have had good luck with conversions and stock hose.
[Modified by markdtn, 11:28 AM 4/22/2004]
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,166
Likes: 0
From: Tulsa Ok
Re: Duracool as a r-12 replacement? (12stepvette)
I have tried Duracool and Freeze 12.....DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY!!!
I have a VIR valve system and didn`t want to convert to 134...so I tried the R12 alternatives...I was very disappointed and couldn`t get better than 65 degrees out of the vents.I bought a few cans of R12 off of Ebay and now have 45 degree temps. :hurray:
I have a VIR valve system and didn`t want to convert to 134...so I tried the R12 alternatives...I was very disappointed and couldn`t get better than 65 degrees out of the vents.I bought a few cans of R12 off of Ebay and now have 45 degree temps. :hurray:
