LS-1 with sidepipes???
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 10,046
Likes: 675
From: FL
LS-1 with sidepipes???
Starting to think about selling my old SBC and going for the Gen III swap.
Has anyone modded a set of Hooker sidepipes for use with a Gen III? I love the look of mine and don't want to lose them. I pretty much have the rest of my questions answered in regards to accessories, harness, tranny etc.
Also thinking about doing a 6.0L iron block swap. Scoggins Dickey has an Escalade 6.0 crate engine for $3790 new. Stock is 345 HP and 380 ftlbs and I am sure that it would like a cam swap.I would also probably swap the intake for the LS-6 part. I do know that this motor basically uses the good Ls-6 heads with a bigger chamber. Compression is still 10:1.
Has anyone modded a set of Hooker sidepipes for use with a Gen III? I love the look of mine and don't want to lose them. I pretty much have the rest of my questions answered in regards to accessories, harness, tranny etc.
Also thinking about doing a 6.0L iron block swap. Scoggins Dickey has an Escalade 6.0 crate engine for $3790 new. Stock is 345 HP and 380 ftlbs and I am sure that it would like a cam swap.I would also probably swap the intake for the LS-6 part. I do know that this motor basically uses the good Ls-6 heads with a bigger chamber. Compression is still 10:1.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 5,145
Likes: 125
From: The Motor City
I'm sure that it can be done (anything can be done) but O2 sensor placement isn't ideal. I looked into it and ended up just switching to an undercar exhaust and putting my sidepipes in the attic. Patsnitrovette has sidepipes with O2 sensors for his TPI setup but they're pretty tight against the frame. 69MyWay (and maybe Zwede) mounted his vertically, sticking up from the side of the collector. Some people like that but I wanted a stealthy install.
As far as modifying the headers, you can get the flanges direct from GM, cut the tubes where the come under the frame, and then you just have to bend and weld the primaries. (That was my plan but I abandoned the sidepipe idea when I thought it wasn't going to work. Pat did his after I had already bailed on the idea.) The only other thing(s) that held me back was a) The LS1 likes backpressure b) It also likes a balance tube (H or X pipe) to balance out the flow from each head.
With all that info, I still think that it would be cool as hell if you can get it to work. I get tons of comments on the sound of my LS1 with chambered exhaust. It's very different from a regular small block.
If you need LS1 help, we're here to help. Budman just got his running less than a month ago, so we have three running and at least 5 in progress.
As far as modifying the headers, you can get the flanges direct from GM, cut the tubes where the come under the frame, and then you just have to bend and weld the primaries. (That was my plan but I abandoned the sidepipe idea when I thought it wasn't going to work. Pat did his after I had already bailed on the idea.) The only other thing(s) that held me back was a) The LS1 likes backpressure b) It also likes a balance tube (H or X pipe) to balance out the flow from each head.
With all that info, I still think that it would be cool as hell if you can get it to work. I get tons of comments on the sound of my LS1 with chambered exhaust. It's very different from a regular small block.
If you need LS1 help, we're here to help. Budman just got his running less than a month ago, so we have three running and at least 5 in progress.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 34,454
Likes: 665
From: Republic of Texas
Maybe the stock side pipes but I doubt the Hookers will work. The LS1 has a bullet shaped exhaust port rather than the round ports on the headers. Anything can be done with enough money, but not sure what's involved or what it would take.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 5,145
Likes: 125
From: The Motor City
Corey, the exhaust port spacing on the LS1 is very different from the SBC (the ports are all equidistant, like the SB Fords) so the header is going to have to be all-new from the mounting flange on the head to somewhere close to the collector.
You're right though, it's going to be close to the amount of work (or $$) of fully custom headers. That was #3 reason that I didn't want to try to make it work on my car.
You're right though, it's going to be close to the amount of work (or $$) of fully custom headers. That was #3 reason that I didn't want to try to make it work on my car.
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 492
Likes: 0
From: Burlington Ky
I agree with Scooter, it's gonna be hard to place the O2's if you don't want to see them and there is the back pressure issue. I never really looked into it because I have to run Cats here in N. Kentucky (with slip joints, of course 
), but it seems to me that getting a pair of shorty headers with the O2 bums already there and then running a single tube from the collector to the sidepipes might be a viable option for you. You might even be able to run a cross pipe between them under the trans. Anyway, just a thought. Mine isn't running yet, but God help the ricers when it does! 
I was also thinking just how good a souped up gen III would sound with sidepipes. OMG!!!
), but it seems to me that getting a pair of shorty headers with the O2 bums already there and then running a single tube from the collector to the sidepipes might be a viable option for you. You might even be able to run a cross pipe between them under the trans. Anyway, just a thought. Mine isn't running yet, but God help the ricers when it does! I was also thinking just how good a souped up gen III would sound with sidepipes. OMG!!!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,078
Likes: 7
From: DFW TX
Cruise-In VII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '07
I also think that the O2 that far down the pipe would cause the pcm to go in and out of closed loop. The single pipe would work fine.
I can't wait to get a set of headers, I'm still not setting car alarms off at 100 yrds. Good luck on the project.
I can't wait to get a set of headers, I'm still not setting car alarms off at 100 yrds. Good luck on the project.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 10,046
Likes: 675
From: FL
I do know of a Monte SS on LS1Tech that has custom long tube headers (approx 30") so I think that a heated O2 sensor in the collector would work (with simulators for the rear sensors). I am not sure how much back pressure the JCL baffles provide. As for ports, as I understand it, the ntakes have that bullet shape but the exhausts are more conventionally shaped.
Well, this is still in the research stage.
Well, this is still in the research stage.
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Drifting
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,634
Likes: 2
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, the World
Stevie,
Fab your own. It's not that hard. I did it for the BB RHD with rack conversion I did for my 68.
Buy a set of flanges for the heads, collectors and a bunch of mandrel bends. Cut the bends at the right places and tack them together. If you aren't a competent welder get a pro to weld them once they are the right shape.
I did mine with a stick welder but a mig is easier.
Grind the welds smooth and get them coated. Mine look real sharp!
Fab your own. It's not that hard. I did it for the BB RHD with rack conversion I did for my 68.
Buy a set of flanges for the heads, collectors and a bunch of mandrel bends. Cut the bends at the right places and tack them together. If you aren't a competent welder get a pro to weld them once they are the right shape.
I did mine with a stick welder but a mig is easier.
Grind the welds smooth and get them coated. Mine look real sharp!
Last edited by RHD '68 L89; Oct 12, 2004 at 10:09 AM. Reason: Another pic added
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 9,622
Likes: 16
From: absecon nj
mY plan was to get a set of flanges or a set of headers and cut them off and cut the flanges from my sidepipes and weld them back together,maybe use some type of slip joints to join them together and weld them up.And 79ls-1 like scooter said ive installed my 02 sensor in my sidepipes and its hidden form the outside.My ls-1 project is on hold for now too much house stuff left to do,but my bro just bought a 2004 c5,so ill get his exhaust to work with when he swaps them out.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,812
Likes: 4
From: Gig Harbor Wa
Originally Posted by WillRace4Food
you can turn the O2s off on a ls1 and tune it without them. Takes alittle more tuning but it can be done. Just have to tune it for open loop running.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 385
Likes: 10
From: Baton Rouge La
You can go to ls1tech and read. Its called open loop tuning or ve tuning. I ran my lt1 car in open loop for a while but eventually turned the 02s back on when i was able to take the o2s out of my wide open throttle tunning. It takes time and patience. Or you can get an aftermarket computer system and can tune it to run without o2s the same way. In any of these it would be best to be able to initially tune the car with a wideband to get the drivability right.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 5,145
Likes: 125
From: The Motor City
Open loop tuning on an EFI car is just like tuning a carb. The beauty of the EFI is that it's a feedback system, so it can compensate for changes in fuel, atmosphere, or other internal or external conditions. When the car goes to WOT, it automatically goes open loop (and commands a richer A/F ratio for more power), so the O2s aren't used anyway.
VE is the Volumetric Efficiency table. It is the "fuel map" if you will that relates the effective efficiency of the engine (and thus fuel requirements ) to engine speed (RPM) and load (manifold absolute pressure. At a given RPM and MAP, this table tells the engine how much fuel it should be using. This amount then has fuel added to (or subtracted from) based on the oxygen sensor reading. Yes, it can operate open loop all the time, but why? The feedback is the main benefit of the system. All you have to do is get the tune close and the computer takes over from there.
The rear O2 sensors are a different story. Their only purpose is to tell the computer if the cats are working. No cats, then no need for rear O2s. Their function can be turned off directly in the computer, eliminating the need for O2 sims.
-Matt
VE is the Volumetric Efficiency table. It is the "fuel map" if you will that relates the effective efficiency of the engine (and thus fuel requirements ) to engine speed (RPM) and load (manifold absolute pressure. At a given RPM and MAP, this table tells the engine how much fuel it should be using. This amount then has fuel added to (or subtracted from) based on the oxygen sensor reading. Yes, it can operate open loop all the time, but why? The feedback is the main benefit of the system. All you have to do is get the tune close and the computer takes over from there.
The rear O2 sensors are a different story. Their only purpose is to tell the computer if the cats are working. No cats, then no need for rear O2s. Their function can be turned off directly in the computer, eliminating the need for O2 sims.
-Matt
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,435
Likes: 0
From: largo florida
If you want to run without your o2s and run off of the ve tables, then you are going to run "speed density". No maf is used, instead it is solely the map sensor and you fill in the table of how much gas should be in the cylinder at different rpms and intake pressures. Atleast that is how I understand it. Oh yeah, the car will automatically go into open loop mode with somewhere around 70% throttle up till WOT. If it didnt do this, the computer would attempt to keep the air fuel ratio at 14.7.
Dang scooter, didnt even see your responce.
Dang scooter, didnt even see your responce.
Last edited by lostpatrolman; Oct 13, 2004 at 03:50 PM.
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 492
Likes: 0
From: Burlington Ky
I'm learning a lot here. 
While at this point I wouldn't claim to know much about the tuning aspect, would operating on a speed density mode and always open loop cancel one of the big reasons for using the system? A big part of why it works so well is the O2's.
While at this point I wouldn't claim to know much about the tuning aspect, would operating on a speed density mode and always open loop cancel one of the big reasons for using the system? A big part of why it works so well is the O2's.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,812
Likes: 4
From: Gig Harbor Wa
Originally Posted by Scooter70
Yes, it can operate open loop all the time, but why?