While on a trip, the 96 started missing. I could here a high voltage snap in the front of the engine, and when it snapped, the engine would cut out. I had to leave that same day on a trip, so I left it with a friends son who took it to the dealer for repair. When I got back the next Sunday it was repaired, but since it was Sunday and I had to head back home I didn't get a chance to talk to the shop.

Here is what the invoice shows was done:
DPERF driveability Systems Check $98.10
Replaced coil wire: $33.00
Replaced B-Harness: $27.63
Fuel Injection System Flush: $129.99

I thought the vette had a coil pack (opti-spark). How do you replace a coil wire if it's all in one unit?
What is a B-Harness?

 

The coil isn't a pack. The opti is a conventional distributor, but it's mounted on the front of the engine.

The coil is mounted on the right head, behind the PS res.

The "snap" you heard was the coil wire grounding to the block or waterpump. It's quite a common problem.

The "b-harness?" I can guess, but I don't know, I suspect it's the wiring to the coil... but I wonder what caused them to replace that?

And what gives with the FI flush? Did you authorize that??? So very pricy for a can of cleaner...

 

I did not authorize the FI flush, but since I wasn't there when the car went into the shop, I was kind of open to what they wanted to do I suspect. My son used to work at the Chevy dealer here in town. He said they used to do the FI flush every chance they get, as it costs them practically nothing, and is high on a return money to the dealer...in other words...a rip off!!!

 

Well except that these are self-cleaning injectors.

 

And wasn't a cause/effect of your problem. I would refuse to pay for the FI flush.

 

I just called the service advisor and asked why the flush was done. He said the technician noticed that the injectors were not working correctly and the flush took care of the rough idle....
Of course they will always come up with an excuse!!!

 

How does one "notice" how the injectors are working?

If it took care of a rough idle (did it have a rough idle??), then let it slide. Otherwise, I'd call them on the injector cleaning....

Larry
code5coupe

 

That's ****, and you know it. They are supposed to call and authorize repairs.

You brought it in for a "snap" and a loss of power. Fix that. The injectors are not an issue.

 

Not only does the injector flush sound like a bit of a stretch from the authorized repair to the coil, but a good can of cleaner would cost no more than $15.00....$130.00, that's highway robbery!!

 

Never bring your car to a dealership(stealership) for repair unless its under warranty. They are the biggest bunch of shysters out there. Do you have parts numbers on the invoice? sounds like all you really needed was a new coil wire.

a little off topic but:
since a number of manufacturers have been offering an employee discount, the dealerships are adding in additional charges and worthless add-ons that raise the price to near the original pre-discount sticker.

This is how a couple of these guys have come to own NFL teams.

 

First off...let's quit calling GM trained technicians at a GM dealership shysters...yes, there are some out there...but I take offense to you lumping them all in. I personally train approximately 30-40 "apprentice" technicians for GM a year. The technicians that work at the dealership that I once worked at are some of the best I know. I would put them up against ANY independent shop for repairs that stay within GM design. I am not talking about modding cars...or the guys that do...

You can talk all day about the can of FI cleaner doing the job...but sometimes you need a stronger mix and a little more pressure than what your fuel system will provide. This is not to say that the price was steep or that their cleaner was really worth it...it just depends on what product they used. Even "self-cleaning" injectors will need some help at times. How many "self-cleaning" ovens have you seen that needed more than just flipping the clean switch?

I am not trying to start an arguement, but think how our supporting dealers would look at you calling their technicians shysters...

Do you really believe that independent shops are more honest...yes you pay more for a GM technician...but you MAY get better service...just depends on your area. Have a great day.

 

I cannot say for certain on 96 models but on the 93 VIN P engine, the service manual has specific warnings about cleaning injectors. It states:

"NOTICE: Use care in removing injectors to prevent damage to the electrical connnector pins on the injector and the nozzle. The fuel injector is serviced as a complete assembly only. Since it is an electrical component, DO NOT immerse it in any cleaner."

Also I reviewed the Driveability and Emissions section for rought, unstable, or incorrect idle, stalling. Its all one category. The only mention of fuel injectors is to test and compare their resistance for an internally shorted injector.

It is possible to damage the injectors with chemical cleaning.

I would try to verify this with the 96 model service manual. But I would think they are the same for both year models.

Rough idles are symptoms of a dirty throttle body, dirty IAC, plugs, wires, vacuum, fuel pressure line, and possibly out of balance injectors. I think they took you on that one.

 

One quick mention on this topic. When I took off on my trip and left the car for someone else to handle, I asked him to contact the Denver Corvette Club for suggestions on where to take it. He called me back a couple hours later and said there were two clubs in Denver, and the contact for both clubs said to take it to this specific dealer. There was no one better. If you can't take the suggestions of the local Corvette Club, then you had better not ask!!

 

Although I didn't call them shysters, everyone has opinions and they are entitled to express them. Perhaps instead of becoming offended, making a note of the customer's opinions of the quality of service received from "GM Trained Technicians" would focus your attention on the training to ensure they do the job right.

I cannot even begin to count the number of times I have had my vehicles and not specifically the vette but new vehicles such as camaro's (2), Blazer, Monte Carlo, and S-10 in for service and warranty service. It is RARE to not have the vehicle come back from service where the service tech broke something else like electrical connectors and just stick them back on and not say anything, damage to the vehicle, in proper repairs that have had to be taken back 2 and 3 times to get the repair done right, and not to mention the infamous we replaced this component yet the vehicle is still having the same problem. And they just keep throwing replacement parts at it with no logical approach to repairing the problem. Three times I've had the vette in for a particular service and until I call them on this they would leave greasy hand prints all over the body and engine components. I had them do plugs and wires, that was a total joke, the trained technician didn't even bother to route the wires nor connect them back up to the trees. I have stories of poor dealer service that I could document and it would take you all evening to read.

How about how many times dealer trained technicians drop vehicles off lifts? Just read the C6 section on how many brand new vettes have been dropped. I hear this all the time on Clark Howard show where people call in with this problem, and the dealer tries to hide it. Or worst they try to get out of properly repairing it.

Ask most women how a dealer service treats them.

They are all lumped together because they all operate under the umbrella of GM. If you have one or more bad apple(s) in the bunch it does spoil the whole bunch. There are very few top notch run dealer service operations. And even those have some marginally qualified technicians in their employment that can give them a bad reputation.

I also would not liken a fuel injector to a self cleaning oven.

 

Perhaps you misread my response but I didn't call any technician a shyster, I called their employer systers and I know this from personally expierence and the expierence of others. If you asked for a show of hands, who has had a bad expierence at a dealership (any car dealership) in either sales or service? over 80% would say, I.

 

I think you been done screwed

If there was a lesson for you to learn here, it was to ask the forum members questions before you commit to any service rather than have second thoughts after the fact.

I am sure that if you would have posted the symptoms that Bogus et.al. would have been able to at least let you know what you'd be up against. That way when the invoice comes and you see some bulls41t services being performed, you can make your case when it's stongest.

I made a few poor choices - but only out of ignorance - before I found the forum.

Ask questions here. Even the stoopid ones can end up saving you a lot of $$$$ and even more heartache!

my .02...

Ed

ps... this will pass and you will continue to enjoy your Corvette!

 

Well besides the unauthorized FI bath, I don't think you did too bad. They actually found the problem and fixed it pretty reasonable. Some other places might have had your car for a week and still not found the problem. I'm not a big fan of the dealer, but sometimes you can't beat 'em if you're not a master mechanic.

Glad you got it back and fixed!!!!!!!!

 

Just to be clear my comments were not intended to trash all dealers or their service depts. But to indicate that this is not a perfect world just because it operates under the GM sign.

You have to find a dealer who treats you fairly. More importantly is the service dept. and developing a relationship with them. Parts folks are good folks as well, and we have several supporting dealers here that are very honorable, and these people will define customer service. One who is mentioned a lot here is Chris at Superior Chevy. This guy is one of the best around.

One thing to always remember no matter who badly the situation gets at service never never lose your composure. Always be nice. Getting upset or angry at them never solves any problems and in most cases makes it worst. If you spend a few hours in the waiting rooms you'll come across someone who is having issues and being verbose about it. One of our local dealers has one service rep who specializes in vettes and their owners. Not bad folks there.

 

I have an opinion, even though it's not worth $.02. Dealerships all over the country employ excellent mechanics and people who managed to pass themselves off as mechanics, but are really not qualified to empty outhouses.

In my 40 years, I've lived in four states. I've had the pleasure of taking my car for service to most of the dealerships that I used. I've had the displeasure of taking my car to dealerships whose mechanics knew less than my 11 year old son. Recently, I had extensive work performed on my Corvette and when the work was completed, not only did they hand me a car that wouldn't run properly, but I needed to take it to someone competent to fix all their mistakes. And believe me, there were many. The problem was so bad that I had to threaten the owner with litigation before he would refund my money. And it was not pocket change. Thousands of dollars passed hands.

My point is that there are and always will be bad apples. If you haven't found one yet, you will one day, run into a mechanic who will work on your car and make your vehicle's problem worse or manage to create other problems. While it is most likely true that the injection flush was B.S. and probably done strictly for profit, they did locate and correct the problem. Look at it this way; You could have brought your car to this dealer and they could have only performed an injection flush and then tell you the problem was corrected. Be thankful the problem will not rear its ugly head any longer.

It cannot hurt if you call the dealer, speak to the manager, tell him why you're so dissatisfied and insist on a refund for the non-approved unnecessary injection flush.

 

We have all been burned by a dealership at one time or another. And it pisses us off when we see another member burned. But did he really get taken? IMHO this Corvette is running well again and the bill was not that bad at all.