Will not Stop on Ice
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 130
Likes: 2
From: Fairfax, VA
Will not Stop on Ice
Folks:
I am not making this up. I have a 93 automatic C4 and when I am on a patch of ice with the brakes pressed to the floor, I have a phenomenon going on between the power applied to the wheels and my braking system. The engine is applying power to the wheels at the same time the brake system is trying to counter act the slippage on ice. The net result is that the car creeps forward at a slow rate of one mph. This can be very disconcerting when you are approaching an intersection and you cannot stop. The rear wheels alternately drive the car forward with the front wheels locked up. The only solution is to put the tranny in neutral. Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon?
I am not making this up. I have a 93 automatic C4 and when I am on a patch of ice with the brakes pressed to the floor, I have a phenomenon going on between the power applied to the wheels and my braking system. The engine is applying power to the wheels at the same time the brake system is trying to counter act the slippage on ice. The net result is that the car creeps forward at a slow rate of one mph. This can be very disconcerting when you are approaching an intersection and you cannot stop. The rear wheels alternately drive the car forward with the front wheels locked up. The only solution is to put the tranny in neutral. Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon?
Racer
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 447
Likes: 0
From: Titletown WI
Originally Posted by madmanjim
Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon?
Stock rear brakes on cars are typically weaker to reduce oversteer because oversteer is considered "unsafe" in a court of law compared to understeer.
If you are truly at a stop, and you put it in gear, it probably should not creep forward, could be a brake problem.
There are three important things a car needs to drive on snow & ice well. tires, tires, & tires.
If you have Z-tires on, which often are not heavily siped, if at all, the only tire that is worse on ice is a mud terrain. ABS is nice, but it can't create traction. 
YMMV »keith
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 130
Likes: 2
From: Fairfax, VA
The rear tires are brand new Z rated. I believe that is some kind of limited slip mechanism that doesn't allow the accelerator to cause the tires to spin. This may be causing the brakes to partially release or something because I hear and feel the brake pedal vibrating, etc.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,413
Likes: 9
From: The Old Dominion
Originally Posted by madmanjim
This may be causing the brakes to partially release or something because I hear and feel the brake pedal vibrating, etc.
It's possible they are letting off the brake pressure to get the wheels to roll, and that the engine is then causing this to creep. Ice is like practically no traction at all. You might try putting the tranny in N and seeing if that helps.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,705
Likes: 30
From: Chesapeake Beach Maryland
2015 C5 of Year Finalist
Mine does the same thing - I drove my car last winter for the first time ever in snow and ice. I have lived in South Carolina for the past 14 years and although I grew up here in Maryland I had never driven my Vette in any snow. I got caught at work and had no choice but to get it home. I put it in neutral at lights (if I could stop), and whipped the Azz end around by turnin'n the wheel and stabbin' the throttle to point the front end in the correct attitude for straight ahead driving. It was weird that when I was sitting still with my foot on the brakes, the rear wheels are still spinning. I know that people sitting next to me were thinking I was crazy!! 
Pro
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 707
Likes: 0
From: Fuquay Varina North Carolina
put it in neutral
With an automatic, the car is always pushing a bit especially if your idle is a little on the high side..on dry pavement this is not a problem, on ice it is a major problem..put it in neutral before you get to the stop..it should stop fine as long as you aren't going way to fast for the conditions. I own a 1971 Mach One with an auto in it..no way will that car stop on ice with the tranny in gear..and even if it does manage to stop the real wheels will spin and cause the rearend to do a little dance..put it in neutral..and you should be fine
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Brett Foote
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburg KS
I have never had this problem in our Vette, but my Dad had an old Monte Carlo, and shifting into neutral was a requirement when stopping in icy conditions. Its a shame when our cars have that much power 
Pro
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 641
Likes: 16
From: O'Fallon MO
Originally Posted by funder354
put it in neutral before you get to the stop..it should stop fine as long as you aren't going way to fast for the conditions
Its just the nature of most of the auto's, they creep at idle power. Thats why you have to keep your foot on the brakes on dry pavement or you will kiss the car in front of you. Just pop it into neutral, its uses about as may brain cells as putting in the clutch on a stick.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,348
Likes: 233
From: SCMR Rat Pack'r Charter Member..Great Bend KS
Originally Posted by DDSLT5
You should be able to lock the rear wheels with your foot to the floor.
With the engine at idle, the brakes should easily lock the rear wheels.
Sounds to me like some weird ABS interaction is releasing the front brakes.
Larry
code5coupe
Last edited by rocco16; Dec 8, 2005 at 01:07 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 130
Likes: 2
From: Fairfax, VA
Thank you all for the advice. I do put it in neutral but didn't realize that this was a "feature" on Corvettes. It was a little disconcerting the first time, but after that I had no problem. I thought I was the only one in town with the problem. I believe the real solution is to trade it in for a new C6 with a stick. What do ya think?
Racer
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 447
Likes: 0
From: Titletown WI
Originally Posted by madmanjim
Thank you all for the advice. I do put it in neutral but didn't realize that this was a "feature" on Corvettes. It was a little disconcerting the first time, but after that I had no problem. I thought I was the only one in town with the problem. I believe the real solution is to trade it in for a new C6 with a stick. What do ya think?
»keith
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 6,715
Likes: 2
From: Santa Teresa New Mexico
Originally Posted by madmanjim
Thank you all for the advice. I do put it in neutral but didn't realize that this was a "feature" on Corvettes. It was a little disconcerting the first time, but after that I had no problem. I thought I was the only one in town with the problem. I believe the real solution is to trade it in for a new C6 with a stick. What do ya think?
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,641
Likes: 13
From: Slidell Louisiana
Originally Posted by madmanjim
Thank you all for the advice. I do put it in neutral but didn't realize that this was a "feature" on Corvettes. It was a little disconcerting the first time, but after that I had no problem. I thought I was the only one in town with the problem. I believe the real solution is to trade it in for a new C6 with a stick. What do ya think?
