I was quoted approx. $250 to change over to r134a.
This includes, new- orafice tube, oil, freon, cleaning, and labor.
I provided the dryer.
Does that sound fair?

 

seems high, but I know that R12 disposal is kinda pricy.

 

Not really when you can buy a kit for $50 bux at Kragen to do the same job. If you are going to do this are you out of R12? Is your system empty and now the compressor won't kick on?

If that is the case, what R12 disposal are we talking about? It's allready gone.

134A is a great replacment and will cool just as good, the bad repu comes from the Flourine that is controlled in a complete R12 system but becomes free and corrosive if mixed with R134a. Once this corrosive molecule is......"Free" then it will attack certain metals and Duramoters or seals in your system causing leaks. The answer is a purge. How you do that is your business. but purging slight amounts of Flourine from an empty system may seem un-profeesional at first it so minor one really shouldn't worry.

The oil in your system is going to be contaminated with R12 so you need to purge your system a few times in order to remove the Flourine. this is done by filling the system with R134a....running a few days and then allowing the gas to escape. Followed by a refill. You need to add oil as well..... but I think new oil is found in the kit from Kragen.

You didn't hear any of this from me.

Now that I have said what I said Let the flame wars will begin. mainly towards me for the environmentally unsound advice....not to mention the Mechanical aspects...er....ah...debates.

But coming from a Cryogenics background and usually dealing with compressors and cold heads that reach (in the extreme) 4-5 kelvin. this is what we do to address these issues. Understand we don't use any of the gasses mentioned above but rather pure Helium........we have to address the other gasses (flourines) when dealing with customers used compressors. New ones are 12K and a used one is usually 4K so we get alot of rebuilds. Not to mention they are converted from Freon systems to begin with. But that is all I am going to debate about as I have been debated to death on this issue on other forums.

One last thing. My old '89 RX7 does have a thermometor in the vents that usually blows around 32°. On a nice hot day in the valley with temps around 95° and with an old rag top.....my Vert is...well....Frigid on the inside. My old '86 Celica would blow Ice crystals out of the two middle vents. But I guess that's just my unique luck.

 

I need to get some pointers from you on how to set up the A/C system in cars. I always heard that 30 below ambient was all you can expect?

 

That's not bad, I paid $360, but I needed a new compressor.

 

Compressing and Expanding gasses is 100 year old technology. The temps reached are a function of Pressure achieved and the volatility of the gasses used. The Outside temp won't effect the temps being reached in the expansion chamber( or wherever the gas is allowed to expand).

If you have an old system.....which a C4 is old.....Then you really have nothing to loose at this point. Buy the kit and fill that system full. If it blows it blows. They all need a new compressor at this point anyway. However a new compressor is probably about $1000 bux so you have to decide.

The only thing I'll caution you on is purging that R12 out. You can mix the two gasses is a newer system and the Flourine becomes corrosive and ruins the seals or inside of any thin metal areas. This is where the R134a got it's bad reputaion.

I do this, I leave the Schrader Valve loose.....just enough to cause a very tiny leak. I fill the system with 134a and in a few days the gas leaks out, then I refill the system with 134a and let it leak out. This is about as back woods as it gets. but it is effective in evacuating a system. Understand, if the system is already empty and the compressor won't kick on then there is a minute amount of R12 or ozone depleting Flourine molecules left in the system. You could purge 1000 sytems in the way I described and still not release enough Flourine to equate to one Prius front end collision allowing a full charged system to escape. ( I know....the Prius has R134a, but you get the annalagy)

Secondly, watch the Oil, Usually a system that has a natural leak (we know it has a leak because....what happened to the R12?) The oil can leak out as well. Make sure you are putting some oil in the system

If you are feeling bold about the system then you can overcharge it to achieve cooler temps. An undercharged system will "cycle". in ohter words it will run out of gas for a bit and you'll notice a slight amount of warmer air coming out of the vents untill gas can cycle through and be re-compressed/released. Juxtaposed an over charged system will compress more gas and upon release achieve greater cooling effect. But this overcharging may blow a weak compressors seals.

Funny, you'll never hear this from your local A/C repairman. Why is it Cooling systems are verbottin from discussion?? Why do they keep all this "black magic" hidden? You can buy whatever you need to build a house from Lowes or Home Depot, but forget even looking for a fuse if goes to an A/C system.....much less freon? Why is that? I can't answer, but I think it is rediculous. It's compressed gas for gods sake. **** we learned about in the early 1900s..........

 

You think you needed a new compressor

 

No i did need one, it stopped working 5 years prior, went with a bang, stalled the engine and everything, had to diconnect teh wiring to drive the vehicle.

I didn't actually get a new one, I probably could have had a new clutch, but the guy had a compressor laying around that he charged me $75 with a gaurantee that he'd replace it for free if it went bad. 20,000 miles later it's still going and of course now he's retired, but I don't own the vehicle anymore, so it doesn't matter.

 

To have somebody do a conversion for this price is well worth it, especially if that's what they do for a living.

I sunk nearly $200.00 into my daughters car just replacing the compressor (bone yard unit) and driving down to Illinois to get the R134 refridgerant and oil (can't buy it in cheeseland).
Tack on 3 hours of labor and fudging, that's another $300.00 for a licensed A/C tech.

 

Ok - you need: about 2 lbs or R134 and at Autozone, that will sit you back about $16 to $20 and you need 8 ozs of oil - unfortunately, you usually have to buy it by the quart so that's going to run another 8 Bucks - shops of course get it in big drums and dole it out as it's needed. They will probably use Ester for the lubricant which is fully compatible with the mineral oil that was in your system. An Orifice is
$9. Swapping out the Accumulator/Drier takes 10 minutes - unless the lines have rust welded at which point, it'll need a new main hose - $100 at the Dealer and 20 minutes to install - maybe even longer because if you get the bend wrong on an L98 - it's going to strike the hood. An Orifice for a pro should take 5 minutes - but even the pros make mistakes and if he/she breaks it off trying to yank it out of the hole, they'll be laboring over it for a lot longer. If the shop is doing it right, they will pull a vacuum for about an hour and go work on something else while thats being done. They will then put a pound of gas in it and leak test - maybe 20 to 30 minutes. Finding no leaks, they'll fill it up - another 15 to 30 minutes. When, they're done, they should check your operating pressures and if they're good, verify the temperature of the air out of the vents. They should also spend 5 minutes cranking down the low pressure switch threshold to 22.5 psi. If you're in California, they will, by law, note pressures, outside air temp and vent temp on your receipt or repair order before sending you on your way. In sum, you've got maybe $40 in materials and $210 in labor wrapped up in your quote and though an efficient shop will spend maybe an hour to an hour and half on it, the Flat Rate probably makes the estimate competitive - assuming normal shop rates are about $75/hour wherever you live.

 

I just paid $150 to a guy that works out of his garage.

I think 250s high, unless its really hot there

 

Yeah the labor is gonna be 185.00
I saw it in the book (huge labor book)
He said he will be taking the compressor off to clean out the old oil.
He said he would also clean all of the hoses change the orifice tube thingy, putting on the new dryer I provided.
Hey! If it works, I'll pay it!
I really only use the a/c when it's rainning.
But when it's hot and rainny, dang it, I need that a/c
I'm taking it to Napa and the guy seems very knowledgeable and empathetic to my situation. (buddy tried to help me-freebie turned into a $250 job)

 

[QUOTE=SunCr]. An Orifice is
$9. Swapping out the Accumulator/Drier takes 10 minutes -]

Do you need to swap the accumulator going from R12 to 134 if you have just installed a new compressor? My clutch went out too, so I changed the whole compressor. I have not engaged it yet, nor have I charged the system.

 

Accumulator life is said to be about 7 to 10 years unless the system is opened exposing it to air/moisture - at which point it's pretty much shot. Should it fall apart, there's a good chance the entire system will then be shot too and it will fall apart if you dump in an non-compatible oil like PAG converting it over to R134. Replace it, they're less than a Hundred Bucks and everything out there is gets along with either gas these days. For more info on conversions go to FAQ section at www.ackits.com or here: http://www.epa.gov/spdpublc/title6/609/index.html

 

Thank you, SunCr!