Inevitable that it happened....
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 448
Likes: 1
From: Clarksville TN
Inevitable that it happened....
Ok...I had read where several of members had times when their car wouldn't crank and it was probably related to the Security system. I had mine at the shop getting a new brake booster and after they test drove it, it wouldn't crank. I get lights, power, radio...but no turn over or clicks from the starter. Tried resetting by pulling the battery cables loose, etc...but nada. The shop seems to think it's the system that reads the key inside the steering column. Anybody got suggestions ?? Should I have it replaced, or I have read that there is a bypass for it available. I'd appreciate any help. 
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 769
Likes: 0
From: Cincinnati OH
I had another GM car ( older buick ) that used the same chip in key security system.
Well, like others it went bad. I measured the resistance of the chip in the key. I went to radio shack and bought resistors that added up to the value. I then pulled the lower side of the steering colum cover down and found two orange wires that went to the ignition cylinder. Sure enough they were to read the resistance of the key. I cut the two wires, and tied them into my radio shack experiment.
That read the correct resistance. And is still working to the best of my knowledge.
Mike
Well, like others it went bad. I measured the resistance of the chip in the key. I went to radio shack and bought resistors that added up to the value. I then pulled the lower side of the steering colum cover down and found two orange wires that went to the ignition cylinder. Sure enough they were to read the resistance of the key. I cut the two wires, and tied them into my radio shack experiment.
That read the correct resistance. And is still working to the best of my knowledge.
Mike
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,933
Likes: 103
From: Peoria Arizona.. Resident Gold Cylon
Very true as posted above but start with the basics first do you have the spare ignition key? Its possible the pellet resister in the key your using is just worn. If not you can take the key to GM to get another key cut and read but thats expensive. Muy local ACE was able to read the key and cut me another one for about $20. Also is the security light lit? GC
Last edited by Goldcylon; Dec 23, 2007 at 01:42 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,694
Likes: 0
From: Beaverton Oregon
The VATS is controlled by the ECM. Changing locks (PITA) will only work if the key stays the same VATS number, of which there are 15 possibilities. Disabling your VATS would be a solution. Go to a locksmith, they will test your key and be able to sell you a module to disable VATS. Remove the underdash panel on the driver side. You should easily spot a two-wire grouping, I believe yellow/orange/green and white, just to the right of the steering column (as it was on my 1989 TA). You should notice that it disconnects in the middle. Disconnect it, insert the module you got from the locksmith into the wire going towards the firewall. Voila, VATS is now disabled. The module will cost you $25 - and your car will never not start because of VATS. It actually took me longer to remove the underdash panel than it did to locate the wire and insert the module.
As for the security feature of VATS being disabled, only you will know. A car thief will likely pass your car by for another, like a Camry or Honda.
As for the security feature of VATS being disabled, only you will know. A car thief will likely pass your car by for another, like a Camry or Honda.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 918
Likes: 5
From: Gainesville FL
I just went through this a month ago. One confirmation that it's a VATS issue is that when you turn the key, the "Security" light stays lit, instead of turning off after a second or two. I had to replace my ignition cylinder and that cured the problem. It's not that bad of a job.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,093
Likes: 33
From: Morristown TN
Man I am now having vats problems also.
I THINK.
I was having a Viper remote starter installed on my wife's Vette as a Christmas surprise and they called me and were having problems getting the remote door locks to work right. But it was starting remotely good. I may have to come back when they can get hold of tech support to help them with the doors.
An hour later they called back and now the door locks were fixed now it will not start with the key or remote.
He says when he turns it on 1st the security light stays lit then next time it goes off.
He said when he was working under the dash someone had installed some type 3 way switch on the VATS system that he could not figure out what was so he left it alone.
The shop closes at 5PM and it is now 10PM and he just called to tell me he was still working with it.
The really bad thing is he has done several of these and it normally takes him about an hour, he has been working on mine since 1PM.
I now have to explain to my wife how that her car went into the shop today to get the bubbles out of the window tint and it somehow turned into an electrical problem.
I THINK.
I was having a Viper remote starter installed on my wife's Vette as a Christmas surprise and they called me and were having problems getting the remote door locks to work right. But it was starting remotely good. I may have to come back when they can get hold of tech support to help them with the doors.
An hour later they called back and now the door locks were fixed now it will not start with the key or remote.
He says when he turns it on 1st the security light stays lit then next time it goes off.
He said when he was working under the dash someone had installed some type 3 way switch on the VATS system that he could not figure out what was so he left it alone.
The shop closes at 5PM and it is now 10PM and he just called to tell me he was still working with it.
The really bad thing is he has done several of these and it normally takes him about an hour, he has been working on mine since 1PM.
I now have to explain to my wife how that her car went into the shop today to get the bubbles out of the window tint and it somehow turned into an electrical problem.
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Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
Likes: 30
From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
When you ask for help, always include what year C4 you have, they are not all alike!
When it won't crank, unplug the clutch safety switch (gear selector sw if automatic) and jump the socket. Measure the voltage on the jumper and hit crank on the ign sw. If you have 12v and no cranking, you have a battery, battery connection, or starter problem. If it cranks, you have a defective clutch safety sw and you can bypass the socket. If you don't get 12v, then you need to check the ign lock. Remove the kick panel above the drivers feet and find the 2 wires from above the steering column and unplug them from the socket in the wiring harness. Insert your key and measure the resistance across the 2 wires from the steering column . It should measure the same as your ign key pellet and if more than 4% different or higher than 13k ohms, then you need to replace the ign lock which comes with new contacts that make connection to your pellet. You can temporarily bypass VATS by connecting a 1/4 W 5% resistor from Radio Shack the same value as your pellet within 4% across the 2 pin socket on the wiring harness (goes to VATS module). Don't permanently bypass VATS because 99% of thefts are done by bashing the column and jumping the ignition. Keep your car in good repair!
When it won't crank, unplug the clutch safety switch (gear selector sw if automatic) and jump the socket. Measure the voltage on the jumper and hit crank on the ign sw. If you have 12v and no cranking, you have a battery, battery connection, or starter problem. If it cranks, you have a defective clutch safety sw and you can bypass the socket. If you don't get 12v, then you need to check the ign lock. Remove the kick panel above the drivers feet and find the 2 wires from above the steering column and unplug them from the socket in the wiring harness. Insert your key and measure the resistance across the 2 wires from the steering column . It should measure the same as your ign key pellet and if more than 4% different or higher than 13k ohms, then you need to replace the ign lock which comes with new contacts that make connection to your pellet. You can temporarily bypass VATS by connecting a 1/4 W 5% resistor from Radio Shack the same value as your pellet within 4% across the 2 pin socket on the wiring harness (goes to VATS module). Don't permanently bypass VATS because 99% of thefts are done by bashing the column and jumping the ignition. Keep your car in good repair!
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
Likes: 30
From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
Man I am now having vats problems also.
I THINK.
I was having a Viper remote starter installed on my wife's Vette as a Christmas surprise and they called me and were having problems getting the remote door locks to work right. But it was starting remotely good. I may have to come back when they can get hold of tech support to help them with the doors.
An hour later they called back and now the door locks were fixed now it will not start with the key or remote.
He says when he turns it on 1st the security light stays lit then next time it goes off.
He said when he was working under the dash someone had installed some type 3 way switch on the VATS system that he could not figure out what was so he left it alone.
The shop closes at 5PM and it is now 10PM and he just called to tell me he was still working with it.
The really bad thing is he has done several of these and it normally takes him about an hour, he has been working on mine since 1PM.
I now have to explain to my wife how that her car went into the shop today to get the bubbles out of the window tint and it somehow turned into an electrical problem.
I THINK.
I was having a Viper remote starter installed on my wife's Vette as a Christmas surprise and they called me and were having problems getting the remote door locks to work right. But it was starting remotely good. I may have to come back when they can get hold of tech support to help them with the doors.
An hour later they called back and now the door locks were fixed now it will not start with the key or remote.
He says when he turns it on 1st the security light stays lit then next time it goes off.
He said when he was working under the dash someone had installed some type 3 way switch on the VATS system that he could not figure out what was so he left it alone.
The shop closes at 5PM and it is now 10PM and he just called to tell me he was still working with it.
The really bad thing is he has done several of these and it normally takes him about an hour, he has been working on mine since 1PM.
I now have to explain to my wife how that her car went into the shop today to get the bubbles out of the window tint and it somehow turned into an electrical problem.
That switch is a VATS bypass installed because the previous owner didn't want to replace the ign lock. A new ign lock would have cost them probably less than the installation of the switch. See my explanation above on how to test the ign lock.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 448
Likes: 1
From: Clarksville TN
Very true as posted above but start with the basics first do you have the spare ignition key? Its possible the pellet resister in the key your using is just worn. If not you can take the key to GM to get another key cut and read but thats expensive. Muy local ACE was able to read the key and cut me another one for about $20. Also is the security light lit? GC
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 805
Likes: 3
From: Okeechobee FL
Go to NAPA and get a new "Starter Enable" Relay. Cost about $12. That fixed mine. It is located under the Drivers' Side dash. Refer to your FSM. I replaced mine, but I also grounded it to the dash (instructed by Gordon Killebrew) and have never had an issue since. I posted the process about 18 months ago (Summer 2006). Good Luck
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,753
Likes: 15
From: backwoods upstate ny
band-aid: resistor at steering column (poor fix for some years as it keeps ecm at ''full ready'', no ''sleep'' mode, higher battery drain).
better: build a 30 hz generator for $10 to eliminate the vats key and ''black box'' (see GI joe's site for schematic/parts list) or buy the thing online for $50.
best: have a chip burner guy turn off vats in your chip.
better: build a 30 hz generator for $10 to eliminate the vats key and ''black box'' (see GI joe's site for schematic/parts list) or buy the thing online for $50.
best: have a chip burner guy turn off vats in your chip.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 763
Likes: 2
From: Weston FL
Go to NAPA and get a new "Starter Enable" Relay. Cost about $12. That fixed mine. It is located under the Drivers' Side dash. Refer to your FSM. I replaced mine, but I also grounded it to the dash (instructed by Gordon Killebrew) and have never had an issue since. I posted the process about 18 months ago (Summer 2006). Good Luck
I agree. I bypassed the VATS and still had intermittant problems with it until I replaced the starter enable relay. It's been about 5 months with no start up problems.
Man I am now having vats problems also.
I THINK.
I was having a Viper remote starter installed on my wife's Vette as a Christmas surprise and they called me and were having problems getting the remote door locks to work right. But it was starting remotely good. I may have to come back when they can get hold of tech support to help them with the doors.
An hour later they called back and now the door locks were fixed now it will not start with the key or remote.
He says when he turns it on 1st the security light stays lit then next time it goes off.
He said when he was working under the dash someone had installed some type 3 way switch on the VATS system that he could not figure out what was so he left it alone.
The shop closes at 5PM and it is now 10PM and he just called to tell me he was still working with it.
The really bad thing is he has done several of these and it normally takes him about an hour, he has been working on mine since 1PM.
I now have to explain to my wife how that her car went into the shop today to get the bubbles out of the window tint and it somehow turned into an electrical problem.
I THINK.
I was having a Viper remote starter installed on my wife's Vette as a Christmas surprise and they called me and were having problems getting the remote door locks to work right. But it was starting remotely good. I may have to come back when they can get hold of tech support to help them with the doors.
An hour later they called back and now the door locks were fixed now it will not start with the key or remote.
He says when he turns it on 1st the security light stays lit then next time it goes off.
He said when he was working under the dash someone had installed some type 3 way switch on the VATS system that he could not figure out what was so he left it alone.
The shop closes at 5PM and it is now 10PM and he just called to tell me he was still working with it.
The really bad thing is he has done several of these and it normally takes him about an hour, he has been working on mine since 1PM.
I now have to explain to my wife how that her car went into the shop today to get the bubbles out of the window tint and it somehow turned into an electrical problem.
Go on this site for more info.
http://www.vatssucks.com/
Good luck
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,933
Likes: 103
From: Peoria Arizona.. Resident Gold Cylon
Last edited by Goldcylon; Dec 24, 2007 at 02:20 AM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 805
Likes: 3
From: Okeechobee FL
The following are the instructions for VATS problem that I paid for from Gordon Killebrew on his help line:
Corvette VATS fix from Gordon Killebrew:
1. Remove Console Plate and Check Neutral Safety Switch Wire (Heavy gauge Yellow Wire) for nicks or cuts, check it all of the way past the cigarette lighter – factory had it in the wrong place. Repair any cuts or nicks & move wire so it won’t be pinched by the console.
2. Ground Wire from Relay to CCM:
Remove Driver Side kick panel and look to the Left of the column for 3 Relays. Look for the Relay with 2 Heavy Gauge Yellow wires, 1 Purple Wire (starter) and 1 Black with Yellow Stripe wire. Ground the Black with Yellow Stripe wire to the Instrument Panel.
My Neutral Safety Switch wire was fine. I replaced the "Starter Enable" Relay and grounded the wire as stated in #2 above. That was a year and a half ago with no problems. Before the fix, it was a problem about 60% of the time. I would replace the "Fuel Enable" relay also, while I was at it.
Corvette VATS fix from Gordon Killebrew:
1. Remove Console Plate and Check Neutral Safety Switch Wire (Heavy gauge Yellow Wire) for nicks or cuts, check it all of the way past the cigarette lighter – factory had it in the wrong place. Repair any cuts or nicks & move wire so it won’t be pinched by the console.
2. Ground Wire from Relay to CCM:
Remove Driver Side kick panel and look to the Left of the column for 3 Relays. Look for the Relay with 2 Heavy Gauge Yellow wires, 1 Purple Wire (starter) and 1 Black with Yellow Stripe wire. Ground the Black with Yellow Stripe wire to the Instrument Panel.
My Neutral Safety Switch wire was fine. I replaced the "Starter Enable" Relay and grounded the wire as stated in #2 above. That was a year and a half ago with no problems. Before the fix, it was a problem about 60% of the time. I would replace the "Fuel Enable" relay also, while I was at it.
Last edited by trulytex; Dec 23, 2007 at 01:30 PM.
