anyone have experience with freeze 12. my 85 is not cooling very well and need to do something.
thanks

 

Have you found any freeze 12? It's just about gone, except ebay. For the cost of it you can just about convert it yourself and be done. Chances are you've got a blocked orifice tube or leaking 0 ring, the coolant didn't just wear out, so you may have a small leak issue.

 

I have a Freeze 12 kit sitting in my garage ready for installation in my 85, but I haven't found any feedback or true installation instructions to date. I do not have access to an evac machine to recover the R12 currently in the system, otherwise, I would have given it a try. The boys at the local quick lube offered to install it, they have the machine, but I am a bit leary until I learn more about the stuff. I may just sell the kit I have and retro the whole thing for R134.

 

you guys try googling "freeze12"? tonnes of info come up...

 

It's 80% R134 and once you dump it in, no shop is going to touch it. And you can't just dump it in either, you need to make sure all of the R12 is gone. Manufacturer's only (legitimate?) claim is that it's compatible with the Mineral Oil used in your system. Mix it (or any 2 unlike gases together) and it can create enough pressure to blow a hole in the hood. I wouldn't worry about the gas because most systems with no gas have bigger problems. Go to an a/c shop and have it leaked checked and then find out what parts need to be replaced - Quality compressors, for your Year, are anywhere from $200 to $400 - Evaporators about $250 - Condensors, maybe $150. Misc seals and lines (they'll have to be custom made if you need one) another $100 or so. More than likely your Vette needs a couple of these (and if the Evaporator is leaking, you're breathing the stuff so it's a safe idea to repair those leaks). Then get your license to buy R12 at www.epatest.com and buy all the R12 you want. Even if you get scalped at 25 bucks a can, it'll be the cheapest item you buy to make it work right again (which for most Vettes can set you back $800 or so even when you do it yourself).

 

 

I'm running freeze 12 through my car, bought it for 6 bucks a can at NAPA, as well as the fittings to use it with my buddies a/c gauges.

The biggest thing, is make damn sure your system isn't leaking before you use it. Get a good leak detector and see how long it holds vacuum before you try filling it.

I changed mine over in March and haven't had a single issue with it all summer and its kept the car incredibly cold all throughout the 100 degree summers in Oklahoma.

 

I'm in a different camp all together and it stems from my cryogenics back ground where as we took regular "Freon" compressors and modified them to pump pure helium. We could reach about 4 kelvin under proper conditions.

that being said, I'm not sure if I've ever heard about anything blowing up.......

R12 has very corrosive Florine in it...that is why the EPA does not like it. In a contained form it is very stable, you let it loose and the unstable molecule eats what ever it wants. That is why you need to evac the system prior to introducing alternative gas.

Before you go off the deep end if your system has already leaked out the R12....then what are you going to evac? (Don't answer "moisture" as the system has yet to be cracked open.) There is R12 permeated into the oil........

An empty system can be filled with R134a and run for a day or two and then purged (fancy way of saying "let out" by pushing the shcraeder valve). Then you refill it, run it for a day and purge...then refill it again.

This may not get all the R12 molecules out of the oil but there should be such a small amount left behind to become benign.

SunCR is correct in how to "properly" fix the A/C system. But if you want drop a whole $50 into it first.......you may find that you save a just a bit. And by $50 I mean a kit and then extra cans for the purging process.


And ultimately, you have a compressor that has a piston with rings in it......maybe it just doesn't have enough "umph" to compress the gas anymore. IN which case the cooling will be sub par no matter what gas you use.

 

When you combine unlike refrigerants, they each occupy their own space and boil or condense at their saturation temp/pressure. Essentially, you can double or triple the operating capacity of the system. The Vette has 2 fail/safes built into it. A high pressure cutout switch or pressure signal which should cut power to the compressor at 400 psi. If that fails, a pressure relief valve, mounted on the compressor, should open at 600 psi and vent gas to the atmosphere. The other problem is compatibility and vicosity of the oil used to lubricate the compressor. Mineral oil, used with R12, is incompatible with R134 and PAG oil, used with R134, is incompatible with R12. Insufficient lubrication (and not necessarily heat) is common to compressor failure. The a/c trade has more than a few amusing anecedots of DIY's undertaking conversions in Walmart Parking Lots and blowing things apart - they refer to conversion products as "Death Kits" though I believe the reference is to the a/c system as opposed to someone getting seriously injured. My personal experience is that the cost of R12 (face it, no one other than enthusiasts want the stuff) pales in comparison to what most 15 to 20 year old systems need to work again. I'm not a fan of just topping off an older system either, if only because some of the lube has gone with the gas which means more wear and tear on the compressor. Blow it up and repairs can exceed the value of most 20 year old cars (unfortunately, including some Vettes).

As to evacuating a leaking system, it depends on where the leak was. Anything at the manifold can suck in air; as could anything on the low side if it's out of gas but that pretty much only happens if you decide to run it without any gas in it while the leak is present. Fixed displacement compressors are no different than an engine - the downward stroke of the piston creates a pressure differential letting in the charge - including air if it's anywhere close to the intake.