Getting New Paint!!!!!
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 36,040
Likes: 4
From: All great change begins at the dinner table Ronald Reagan
I agree and disagree... $6K just for paint is **** rape without lube on cars like ours that are worth less then $10,000.
However, Their is a tremendous amount of labor involved in painting one right. The standard is so high now that 300+ hours can go into a single paint job and still not come out perfect. Not to mention the cost of materials.
For just the materials alone for a $6000 paint job
PPG Deltron price list (deltron is the GM recommended refinish material)
Basecoat is $400 per gallon
Clearcoat is $300 per gallon
Primer is $200 per gallon.
basecoat reducer is $66 per gallon
Clear coat catalyst is $80 per quart.
Primer catalyst is $60 per quart.
-----------------------------------------
total $1106
Then you got prep and buffing products.
I spend close to $250 per car on tape, masking materials, sand paper, body filler/fiberglass, and gun cleaner.
----------------------------------
total $250
The 3m perfect it paint polishing system is
6 trizat P2000 & P2500 dics = $50
1 quart fast cut compound = $65
1 quart finishing compound = $70
1 quart swirl removal compound = $90
1 quart ultra fine finish compound = $90 (dark colors only)
4 foam polishing bonnets (course, med, fine and ultra fine) $100
--------------------------------
Total: $465
Grand total: $1821 in just paint materials. Don't forget about door pins, panel clips, weather stripping, trim adhesive, molding tape, window guides, nuts and bolts etc...
Now thats retail price and don't include what I can reuse. I get about a 30% discount compared to retail prices, and the buffing compounds and bonnets will last for more then one car.
By the time a shop pays for the overhead they make less then $1000 per car in pure profit.
That's why I say it's better to find someone like me
I have no overhead. And only my hands touch the car from start to finish. (except polishing. I contract it to a friend) I'm slower then a large body shop, but the quality and price will beat them every time 
However, every hillbilly with a paint gun thinks their a pro painter. so do your homework on the painter. Check his work, references, shop and tools. A good painter with a dirty garage and cheap tools is worse then a poor painter with good tools.
However, Their is a tremendous amount of labor involved in painting one right. The standard is so high now that 300+ hours can go into a single paint job and still not come out perfect. Not to mention the cost of materials.
For just the materials alone for a $6000 paint job
PPG Deltron price list (deltron is the GM recommended refinish material)
Basecoat is $400 per gallon
Clearcoat is $300 per gallon
Primer is $200 per gallon.
basecoat reducer is $66 per gallon
Clear coat catalyst is $80 per quart.
Primer catalyst is $60 per quart.
-----------------------------------------
total $1106
Then you got prep and buffing products.
I spend close to $250 per car on tape, masking materials, sand paper, body filler/fiberglass, and gun cleaner.
----------------------------------
total $250
The 3m perfect it paint polishing system is
6 trizat P2000 & P2500 dics = $50
1 quart fast cut compound = $65
1 quart finishing compound = $70
1 quart swirl removal compound = $90
1 quart ultra fine finish compound = $90 (dark colors only)
4 foam polishing bonnets (course, med, fine and ultra fine) $100
--------------------------------
Total: $465
Grand total: $1821 in just paint materials. Don't forget about door pins, panel clips, weather stripping, trim adhesive, molding tape, window guides, nuts and bolts etc...
Now thats retail price and don't include what I can reuse. I get about a 30% discount compared to retail prices, and the buffing compounds and bonnets will last for more then one car.
By the time a shop pays for the overhead they make less then $1000 per car in pure profit.
That's why I say it's better to find someone like me
I have no overhead. And only my hands touch the car from start to finish. (except polishing. I contract it to a friend) I'm slower then a large body shop, but the quality and price will beat them every time However, every hillbilly with a paint gun thinks their a pro painter. so do your homework on the painter. Check his work, references, shop and tools. A good painter with a dirty garage and cheap tools is worse then a poor painter with good tools.
You get what you pay for. We charged $10,000 + materials once for a '70 C3, black inside & out. We used the PPG Global system on the car.
The owner had taken a big wheel with 42 grit paper to remove the paint off of the whole car before we worked on it. He ground do much fibreglass off we had to patch paper thin areas all throughout the car. We applied a skim coat of filler, then leveled the panels, then went over than with FeatherFill and blocked that down with a guide coat until it was perfectly smooth.
All of this prepping process was done by hand with a set of blocks, including a strip of pine & some shortened paint sticks. We earned every penny of the hourly minimum wage we earned on that car.
Took us 8-10 months of weekends and holidays before it was finally presentable to the spray gun.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 917
Likes: 2
From: Charlotte NC
You get what you pay for. We charged $10,000 + materials once for a '70 C3, black inside & out. We used the PPG Global system on the car.
The owner had taken a big wheel with 42 grit paper to remove the paint off of the whole car before we worked on it. He ground do much fibreglass off we had to patch paper thin areas all throughout the car. We applied a skim coat of filler, then leveled the panels, then went over than with FeatherFill and blocked that down with a guide coat until it was perfectly smooth.
All of this prepping process was done by hand with a set of blocks, including a strip of pine & some shortened paint sticks. We earned every penny of the hourly minimum wage we earned on that car.
Took us 8-10 months of weekends and holidays before it was finally presentable to the spray gun.
I had one like that once except it was a 68 and the owner used a combo of scrape razors, drill powered wire brush, steel wool and paint stripper. Nothing but a nightmare. It had huge chunks of fiberglass removed from the scrap razor, Deep scratches from the wire brush and little pieces of steel wool stuck in the fiberglass everywhere. I ended up buying a special gun to spray a thick polyester fiberglass resin over the whole car to sand level before spraying a gel coat.
It took me 4 months to finish and cost about $1500 of my own money where I under bid the job.
People do dumb things to save a buck. Ive seen everything from kerosene used as paint stripper to nail guns used to install side skirts.
Now, I turn down all customers that want to do their own body work.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,444
Likes: 0
but their is only a few real types of automotive paint.
rethane basecoat bc/cc (1K & 2K)
:Waterborne basecoat bc/cc (1K only)
:Acrylic Urethane single stage (2K only)
:Acrylic enamel Single stage (1k & 2K)
:Synthetic enamel Single stage (1K & 2K )
:Acrylic lacquer single stage (1K)
And only a types of clear coat
rethane.
:Polyurethane.
:Acrylic Enamel
:Synthetic Enamel (rare)
:Acrylic Lacquer
rethane basecoat bc/cc (1K & 2K) :Waterborne basecoat bc/cc (1K only)
:Acrylic Urethane single stage (2K only)
:Acrylic enamel Single stage (1k & 2K)
:Synthetic enamel Single stage (1K & 2K )
:Acrylic lacquer single stage (1K)
And only a types of clear coat
rethane.:Polyurethane.
:Acrylic Enamel
:Synthetic Enamel (rare)
:Acrylic Lacquer
They are just "U"'s.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,444
Likes: 0
Sounds about right. I got my car painted back in May and I paid about 5K and I got the wet look going on. But I have to bring it back to get the hood painted over. When I look at my hood at certain angles I notice that from the middle of the hood up to the windshield area of the hood there is a whitish look to that painted area. I asked him and he said he must have not mixed the paint properly. Other than that he did a great job. So for your $2500-3K job I do not think he will be wet sanding. You should see if you can get him to wet sand it, to get rid of any orange peel. Orange peel looks horrible.
When the paint has its final cut/polish sands it gets its mirror shine. But if the paint continues to cure, the base shrinks which pulls the surface tension back, expanding it. This causes a minor fog like look in the paint if viewed at the right angle.
If this is the case, you just need some more buffing/cutting in the area. My guy asked I come back after a few weeks just for this reason. He rebuffed the whole car twice (2 different grits), even though only a few spots of die back were detectable (I didn't see them until he pointed them out to me and then I could only make out one of them).
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,815
Likes: 10
From: New York New York
The whitish area might just be die back. I had a little of that in my paint job. It is an easy fix. The problem is the paint is curing (drying and hardening) and it is also gassing off solvents. This messes up the shiney surface.
When the paint has its final cut/polish sands it gets its mirror shine. But if the paint continues to cure, the base shrinks which pulls the surface tension back, expanding it. This causes a minor fog like look in the paint if viewed at the right angle.
If this is the case, you just need some more buffing/cutting in the area. My guy asked I come back after a few weeks just for this reason. He rebuffed the whole car twice (2 different grits), even though only a few spots of die back were detectable (I didn't see them until he pointed them out to me and then I could only make out one of them).
When the paint has its final cut/polish sands it gets its mirror shine. But if the paint continues to cure, the base shrinks which pulls the surface tension back, expanding it. This causes a minor fog like look in the paint if viewed at the right angle.
If this is the case, you just need some more buffing/cutting in the area. My guy asked I come back after a few weeks just for this reason. He rebuffed the whole car twice (2 different grits), even though only a few spots of die back were detectable (I didn't see them until he pointed them out to me and then I could only make out one of them).
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,815
Likes: 10
From: New York New York
$6000 so the lazy-*** bimbo parked next to you can give her shopping cart a half-hearted shove in the direction of the cart corral only to watch listlessly as it careens into your door. Or maybe she'll throw open her SUV's door into your fender while trying to get junior into the car seat. Oh, well, gotta hurry to get the other brats to soccer practice.
I'm actually RELIEVED when my car gets its first ding or scratch so I can put to rest my parking lot paranoia.
I almost envy the good citizens of KY, only a few of whom drive cars with color-matching body panels.
I'm actually RELIEVED when my car gets its first ding or scratch so I can put to rest my parking lot paranoia.
I almost envy the good citizens of KY, only a few of whom drive cars with color-matching body panels.
