La1000

I thought I'd throw this out there for discussison. I am currently looking at buying a C4, preferrably '94-'96 and I was wondering how the market is for these vehicles. I was just perusing the ZR-1 part of the C4 forum and it seems like the bottom may have fallen out of that market. Regardless of technology and hp war discussions of the C4 ZR-1s vs the C5/C6 Z06s and ZR1s, it seems that the C4 ZR-1s should be good "collectors" items in the future. Am I wrong?
The C4 L98/LT-1/LT-4s seem to be holding their values decently. Is the bottom still waiting to fall out of this market or does is seem to be stabilizing?

I'm also trying to sell my '79 which is in fantastic shape, but I haven't had so much as one phone call! How is the C3 market?

Thoughts?

dukeallen

Late C3s and all C4s are more valuable in grins than dollars. Plus, look at any story about the economy. Neither "C" generation is going to go through the roof any time soon.

Sargevette

Buy it to enjoy. Not as an investment.

La1000

I agree, however, with the difficulty in finding anyone to even consider my C3, finding one that's desirable for future sale would help.

24695bob

The problem with the C4 ZR-1 is the parts availability of the replacement parts darn hard to find at any price...Nice to own one but unless you know your Corvettes and have a great eye and can spot the emblem you will never tell it from any other late model C4 .

I also own a 79...l-82 very good shape and it is still depreciating ..and to be frank its a slow ..heavy car ...not much of a market unless you find a Car guy who likes Corvettes

BTW I also own a 72 Conv and a 76 Coupe both also in very good condition
The 76 held its on on depreciation..as it did not...the 72 on the other hand appreciated 10 percent

My 88 35th Annv held its own but both the 88 coupe and convertibles depreciated

Maybe in another 20 years

Bob G

H P Bushrod

Bingo!

La1000

I wonder if the late, slow, heavy C3s will ever be worth anything. I'm one of those guys who loves Corvettes regardless. The '79 was my first because it was affordable.

cv67

Same "wondering when" discussions on the C4s. Once the C3s are out of reach then maybe the C4s day will come. Personally think its wasted thoughts. If you like the car who cares what its worth.

They are about bottomed out.
The good thing is they are cheap to buy, easy way to get into a sportscar look at it like that.

If Id have kept a few Camaros from way back I wouldnt sell them even though theyd be worth a ton right now. Too expensive these days;back then noone cared about em like these cars, could be had on the cheap all day. Now most are priced out of the game.
Soemthign to think about.

15-20 yrs ago all the new cars or most were undepowered crap most still worshipped the old muscle so they shot up in value. NObody wanted new

Now, each yr cars get more and more power its just easier to walk into a dealership and buy new. Drives the values of these older ones in the toilet.

93Rubie

The cheaper they get the more I can enjoy more of them, parts get cheaper too, especially used ones. I'll keep my C4 and maybe add another.

mike100

The ZR-1 market is still trying to sort itself out- a lot have come available lately- good time to buy, but I keep an eye out on the regular models too and it is getting harder and harder to find clean 6-spd LT1 cars (for example) and it does seem that asking prices are holding firm at higher than distress sale prices.

Lots of $8k and up LT1 cars... it was actually easier to find better deals a year and a half ago. I say supply and demand on the regular models is on the upswing in favor of the higher price.

bb62

The ZR-1s are plagued by ignorance to some extent. Look at the comment below from 24695bob. The is no problem within the ZR-1 community of finding suitable parts to keep the cars running well. And there is considerable support from ZR-1 specialists for those that want to do anything from racing to just cruising.

Clean LT1 cars are getting harder to find because they are being used up. Because they haven't been considered "collector cars" by most of those who own them, lots of miles are being generated. Even a low 8000 miles per year will put the youngest LT1 at about 130K. That's a good thing because people are enjoying them.

Besides the utter wrongness of the parts availability comment, for ZR-1 owners, it is very easy to tell the difference between ZR-1s and base models. After constantly staring at a ZR-1 (because its the only C4 I own), the base models have a sort of squeezed look about them that is unmistakable. I think it is because of the wide indentation for the license plate on the ZR-1. It's not a good or bad thing, its just super easy to tell. No different in my mind between telling the difference between a wide body and narrow body Porsche 911.

Ward Cleaver

I bought a one owner, 24,000 mile '96 Collector Edition in immaculate condition this past August.

I didn't buy it as an "investment" though, nor did I concern myself with whether I might be "upside down" with it if I ever wanted to sell it down the road (although it was sold to me at a good price). I bought it to enjoy it and because I've always wanted one.

I also have a '68 Chevelle (396) that I'm rebuilding from the ground up.
I didn't buy that as an "investment" either. With few exceptions, involving rare or unusual models, any guy who does a quality restoration on a Chevelle will be "upside down" with it when he's done.

With unusual exceptions, I don't think any car should be bought as an "investment." Most people who buy cars are "upside down" with them.
I've been "upside down" with every new car I've bought as soon as I drive it off of the dealer's lot.

If you want to invest your money, or are concerned about a return down the road, then there are much better places to put your money than into a car.
Buy the car you want because it's something you want and something you'll enjoy.

GREGGPENN

I didn't take this thread to be an investment purchase discussion (exclusively). I thought it was as much a feeler for when Z's have bottomed out for the best purchase.

If the price continues to drop, then the same model/mileage can be bought for less. If this forum believes they've bottomed out...then there's no more reason to wait.

That's how I took it.

mike100

I really wish I had some more parking spaces because I don't think I'm going to find another one like my '95 6 spd with 77k miles on it for $7k. it was fully loaded with fx3/ sport seats, blose radio pkg and all that. It was a little rough, and an off color, but you're not getting low miles for 7000 bucks right now unless a rod is hanging out the side of the block. Of course I later sold it- and got most of my money back too.

I didn't even haggle on that car- just threw C-notes at the dude as soon as I saw it drove straight, shifted smooth, and the a/c worked.

I have not seen too many less than 100k mi cars lately, and if so, they are basically $10k+ asking prices. Part of it is the demand for used cars...mostly ones where people aren't taking out loans. lots of demand for that range I think.

schob86

I bought a '94 automatic (not ZR-1) in good condition and most options, with 92k miles on it, for 8500 2 weeks ago. Just thought I'd throw that out there as far as an example for current market value.

Loving the car so far

Paul Workman

I gather you don't own a ZR-1, or you wouldn't be passing on this tired old line about parts availability for the ZR-1. Its understandable. I hear it too all too often from those Barrett Jackson commentator morons, just about every time a ZR-1 comes up for auction. "Complex", "difficult to get parts", blah, blah, blah... Horse pucky!

But, in reality, 90% of the car is C4. And, as for the motor, it doesn't break. Designed by Lotus to race, they were each hand assembled to exacting tolerances, one at a time like a fine watch by the people at Mercury Marine. In final development testing, the LT5 was hooked to an engine dyno and was alternated between 7000 rpm and max torque for just over a week before being torn down and inspected. It could "go again", was the sum of the findings! The LT5 powered ZR-1 still holds several world speed and endurance records for a production car; records not broken by any push-rod motors, in other words.

But perhaps most important, when considering a ZR-1, is an extremely active support group for these cars, as well as several people around the country that specialize on this car. True, if you go to the GM parts counter, you could easily get discouraged. However, there is a cottage industry among ZR-1 owners that supplies many of the parts, e.g., gaskets, starter components, injectors, etc. and even some heavy duty mods like closed deck, big killer cid LT5s.** Just wander over to the ZR-1.net Registry with a problem, and you'll find an enthusiastic group of people that can help.

**At a recent Corvette Challenge race day, it was an IL group of ZR-1 enthusiasts - the "FBI" (Fast Boyz of Illinoiz) that won the best of three cars club competition which included other clubs sporting a cadre of stock and modded C5s & C6s - ZO6s included. Point being...There is a lot of life and serious potential in those magnificent DOHC V8s

Bottom line: 1) It would be a mistake to project the kinds and cadence of issues encountered with the mass produced SBCs onto the LT5; it is an entirely different animal - a real jewel like no other Corvette has ever had. And, 2) because of the support group, you needn't worry about keeping your car running.

As for distinguishing a ZR-1 from the late mo C4s, the clues can be subtle - a complaint not lost on ZR-1 owners. But, if you know what to look for, you can pick one out of the crowd in a hurry. If that wide butt doesn't give it away, then the unique sound they have might, and when they go WOT...there's no doubt what you're looking at.

I suspect the economy has a lot to do too with the prices of all cars, and not just the Zs. But, cars make lousy investments. There are enough low mileage ZR-1s out there to fill the NCRS appetite, so there's no reason not to drive the ZR-1 the way it was intended...HARD! (And, as Dave McLellan said, (in effect) "Run the LT5 up to 7000 rpm often. It will thank you for it!")

I guess my point is, don't let the uninformed stand in the way of owning a truly magnificent Corvette! Drive one before deciding. You might be as amazed as I was...and still am! Permagrin!!

P.

zr1fred

Zr-1 prices (IMO) are still sorting out, and probably haven't bottomed but are close. This year has seen a lot of price INCREASES (other than ZR-1's), but a lot less sales as people see some of the prices and assume that is reality, and price their cars acordingly. Rough LT-1's at $4k-$5k, nice ones at $7k-$9k probably are at the bottom, and while not going to appreciate, should maintain their value for quite a long time as long as kept in at least their present condition. In other words, you probably won't make anything, but you shouldn't lose much either owning one for a few years. That's a better deal than most cars you can buy. Museum quality cars, are, of course a little different. If I were to buy one corvette to both show and take (reliably)on road trips and to shows, it would be a 90-93 ZR-1 in the mid teens. Great wow factor, and performance that will at least keep up with any of the new cars other than a C6 Z06 or ZR1 (both of which are over $50k AND depreciating VERY fast), and better than average reliability. Another thing to remember about ZR-1's is they are held to a higher standard than regular C4's. ie, a fair condition ZR-1 would be considered a very good condition LT-1. And, most of the problems you would face on a ZR-1 are the very same parts and problems on a regular C4, the ZR-1 specific parts are more reliable.

Elrick

I was just looking at an add in the for sale section for an LT4 with 50k on it for 12k. Looks to be in good shape. This past spring I sold my 86 and bought an LT4. So glad I did this. What a huge difference in performance compared to the 86. The 6 speed is a blast to drive, all the rattles and noises that the 86 had are not there in the 96. If you want a late model C4 this is what I would suggest. Personally, I don't really care about it "holding" it's value or being a collectors item. I got it because it puts a huge perma-grin on my face and if you are the least bit handy, the guys here will lead you through any repair. Do yourself a favor and be sure to drive an LT4 before you decide on what to buy. It's a great time to get good deals on these now. Good luck.

24695bob

Mike and Paul....

Well I stand corrected on the AVAILABILITY of ZR-1 parts...so I guess I better slump down behind the car to wipe the egg off my face,...

On the styling however I still think I am right... yes I can tell the difference but it takes a few seconds for me .. Your average guy or gal on the street can't tell...and your average Corvette owner usually can not tell either

Anyway.. I plead guilty on the parts issue..

Bob G

La1000

From everything I've heard and all the people I've talked to, sounds like the LT-4 '96's are the most fun, and the best C4s to buy. Not having driven an LT-4 or an LT-1 with a six speed, is the extra 30 hp THAT noticeable? I've been leaning towards the LT-1 only because they are far more available, and affordable, although it does seem that a 6-speed C4, no matter what engine, is hard to find.