A sarcastic reply is a common response when challenged to produce facts. Good one.

 

No one was debating the location of the filter. Obviously its inside the engine compartment, and its positioned in such a way as to draw air from outside the engine compartment. This should not be a surprise since just about every fuel injected car is designed to obstruct water and road debris but allow cold air into the inlet. Just say something acknowledging that the pic of airflow posted by Aardwolf has changed your mind and if its in fact correct that your willing to accept it as truth. There is nothing wrong with that, since the best way to be right about something is to stop being wrong. You know good and well I certainly would.

 

84Z51J

the facts were presented to you, and you choose to ignore them

these are the facts Tom:

Cold air is introduced through the 18 louvers in the air box' lid, cold air from under the bumper enters in front of the air box through an opening approx 8" wide

if you look below the emblem that says "Bowling green kentucky" you will see this opening

also, the fact that cold air enters the air box was pointed out to you by Aardwolf when he informed you that IAT's were 1 degree above ambient not the 35-40 you claimed

you also were provided a thermal photo that clearly demonstrates that no hot air can back flow through the radiator and or a/c condensor to the air boxes inlet in a heated state

again I ask How does Hot under air from the hot semi sealed under hood area get to to air boxes louvered inlet
You going to answer me or stand there with a slack jaw

here's a pic of the opening in front of the air box louvers








note the tape measure opening is in the center of the scale
I put a shop light under the bumper and you can see light shining through the opening

Ardwolf says air comes through the fog lights and gaps
I'm telling you it comes from in front of the air filter's louvers

 

This is truly a sentinel moment for ole Tom. I'm betting he's man enough to change his mind, however distasteful it may be.

 

I'm happy to admit I'm wrong...done it many times. When someone can and will present something concrete. A picture of a cut out in the radiator shroud, for AC tubes, isn't that.

Guys, as always, I like to seek the facts. I prefer to explore and find answers, rather than resorting to deflection and insults. To that end, here is what I'm going to do; I'm going to use my DVOM with it's temp probe, to measure temps at various places under the hood. I'll post the results of each location. That is objective data, and indeed, I may very learn from that experiment, that ambient air is directed very deliberately into the air filter. I don't think that is what I'll find, since the filter is sitting in s pretty unventilated area...inside the engine bay...but objective data will tell the story. I think that most reasonable people would agree that pursuing things this way, is better than avoiding the facts and throwing insults.

.

 

I've looked there a million times...I don't see that opening. Aardwolf has a different car than I do; I believe that his has the earlier cooling package w/the forward leaning radiator. He posted pics of his radiator shroud that don't look like my car. So...he might have the results he claimed. I didn't dispute his results. He did, after all post objective data. Something you've not done.


Easy. It is drawn there from the dotted area above the radiator, by the ingestion of air through the filter. IDK WHAT that pic is that Aardwolf supplied. You call it a thermal photo. Maybe it is; the air changes temp as it rises over the hood? Maybe it does...but IDK why it would. Do you? Anyway, to ME it looks more like a image depicting WHERE and HOW MUCH air flows, inside the front of the car. It looks like most is flowing through the radiator -as one might expect. I see zero depiction of "flow" up through that orifice that you've shown....and the air in that image, that is in front of the air box "louvers"...it looks pretty stagnant to me. What I don't see is that "cold air" rushing in to the area in front of the filter. Again, you think that image proves your point, your comments about it differ from Aardwolf's and I think the image backs up my point. I guess we're interpreting the image differently.



I don't know what we're looking at here. A black pic of a blurry light. Is that the same pic as your first pic, only back lit? Try to answer that, if you could, minus the insult. That would be great, thanks.




I mean...what I'm seeing there is a hot air intake. What I see is the vast majority of the cold air in that picture is going through the radiator.

I feel that pic proves my point....bow tie and moto man feel that it proves theirs. Time to whip out the meter.

 

Say what? Giving my analysis of the photos is "semantics"? How are my thoughts about the photos any more "semantical" than yours?? they're both opinions of an image. Volunteering to take measurements of underhood temps is "semantics"?? How so?

 

No Tom semantics of arguing a point that was made befor Aardwolf explained it to you in plain english

lets refresh: the IAT's were data logged @ 1 dergree above ambient

not 30 not 40 and certainly not 50

and it doesen't take a rhodes scholar to distinguish "Hot under hood air" from the "semi sealed under hood area" to ambient does it ?

 

Look Aardwolf posted his data, for his '88. I posted mine, for my '92. YOU latched onto his and are claiming it as gospel, apparently. *I* am interested in BOTH. Who has the open mind? Who is exploring the facts here?

"Semi sealed under hood area" isn't COLD air induction. What you get is a "semi mixed" bunch of air. Some air may well be (probably is) "cold"/ambient air...some is warm/hot air from the engine, exhaust manifold, radiator etc. So is it a HOT air intake? I guess maybe not, b/c it's not drawing air off the exhaust manifold directly...but it's not what I would call a cold air intake either. A Cold air induction system very deliberately segregates outside air from any under hood air. I don't think anyone can claim that the C4 intake does that, with a straight face. Temp testing will show what is really going on. And maybe you're right; Maybe the filter area is so meticulously designed that even though it's wide open...and in the "under hood area"...maybe only ambient air magically makes it into that space and into the air filter w/o mixing w/any of that other under hood air. Maybe on an 80* day, your air temps at the louvers is 80*. Maybe...but I doubt it.

 

So we have our definitions clear, to me, this is a true, "cold air intake", because it cannot possibly draw any air from the under hood area "Semi sealed" or otherwise. The opening for the air filter housing is physically outside the engine bay, sitting, literally, in ambient air.

 

never mind Aardwolf go look under your bowling green emblem
those louvers are behind an opening in the bumper reinforcement

 

That the C4, doesn't have a cold air intake. I thought I was clear about that, but I guess I wasn't.

 

Well it certainly hasn't a Hot one, I was clear about that

 

You were clear that was your opinion, yes. I didn't see you produce anything meaningful to support your thinking, however. What I mostly saw was insults, when challenged.



Guys, the image is of a C6. This is why, I choose to fact find, rather than throw insults.

So should we agree to call the thing a "Tepid Air intake"?

.

 

As far as I'm concerned Tom your opinion of meaningful makes no matter

 

I don't doubt it. Interesting though...no comment on the C6 image?

Why do you keep quoting 84Z51?

I'll post up my temp results when I have time to record them.

 

I did all these and my '87 is much livelier than it was...

cut open the air box
fit an itg filter
descreen the maf
bypass the tb coolant
relocate the mat sensor
160deg thermostat
AIR delete
A/C delete
new Taylor ignition system
refurbed the entire fuel system
tb airofoil
made my fpr adjustable to give 45psi
straight 60mm pipes all the way out the back
10deg intial timing
lost about 150lbs of dead weight
1.5-ve camber and about 8deg +ve caster

Some of this stuff is controversial, but maybe it all needs to work together to get any benefit. It drives much better than it ever did and still gets good mpg and decent handling. Yes I know there's lots of 4 bangers that are faster, but they don't come with a healthy V8 soundtrack and that's what I like best.

 

Dollar for dollar if you really want more power just save up your money and replace the engine....

Back in the day I tried about every tweak I could on the stock motor. The only thing that made a difference was a supercharger on my 86.

Dollar for dollar the 383 stroker in my 87 convertible would smoke the stock motor with the supercharger my 86 had.

All the non expensive tweaks I did on the 86 wouldn't even shave a full second off the 1/4 miles times.

 

As for the cold air intake part I think this pic another member posted about an hour ago in another thread shows how the air gets in. Looks like a cold air intake to me.

 

Well if the image is from a c6 car then it cant be applied to the c4. Intake air temp sensor data will be conclusive. Tepid air is sort of the goal from the designers point of view. Its not supposed to be a forced air intake or the risk of water entering the airbox would be too high. At least for a street car. I could see where it would still draw from air that is basically outside (the engine compartment) air temp anyway. Just like the mustang you posted the photo of that has the inlet in the inner fender cavity.

So what is it your planning tom ? Are you going to put a thermometer in the air box somehow ? That would be pretty conclusive, although I tend to believe the IAT sensor data.