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My car has a bit of a story. My dad was the second owner and when he passed in 2011, I wound up no having the heart to get rid of it.
Originally, we *were* going to get rid of it. It needed a lot of work as it had been sitting in his pole barn for four or five years at that point and the rodents had gotten to the interior (a bit) and into the engine compartment. The latter was more worrisome to me.
Our long-time mechanic, who knew a bit about the car came out to the house, pulled it out of the garage, and hauled it to the shop. He didn't even want to put it inside and I don't blame him. Aside from the fact the the interior smelled horrible, there we didn't know what the local squirrel population had chewed through. He put a charger on it, but didn't feel as though he wanted to leave it unattended. Nothing burned up, although the battery turned out to be shot. Danny then cleaned out the air box, put in a battery, and the thing started right up, much to everyone's surprise! It also blew crap out of the tailpipe for quite a bit. At that point, I took it and had some folks take a stab at the interior. That proved more of a problem, but they got it livable, if not saleable. I drove back up to PA, and dragged the car to MD. It proved pretty reliable though, and the odor went away. In fact the car continued to prove reliable enough, even with the flaky computer, that I wound up hanging on to it. It's got fewer than 70,000 miles on it.
In addition to the computer, I had to have a mechanical switch put on the cooling fans. This was actually a "quick fix" for the first of the symptoms of the computer issues. At the same time I also had it switched over to regular coolent.
Aside from that, I put tires on it, replace the "Cigar Lighter" socket, and the driver's side window regulator. Amazingly little for a car that was in the condition that it was in when it came out of the barn.
Up to very recently, it's been reliable and a lot of fun for both SMBO and me to drive. Anyway, following is a list of projects that I need to get to...
Investigate various warning lights and DTC codes that may or may not be related to the ECM.
Driver's door lost all of the electrics last week. (May be part of some ongoing issues with the door. Shouldn't be too hard to fix. Riiight.)
Reinstall that #$%_)* radio antenna so that it closes all the way.
Inspect, Repair or Replace Shock Actuators (This one may go to a specialist, although the actuators don't look too inaccessible..)
Shocks?
Other things that I only remember when I'm on the road.
Detail inside and outside. It's been a couple of years and it's time.
My car has a bit of a story. My dad was the second owner and when he passed in 2011, I wound up no having the heart to get rid of it.
Originally, we *were* going to get rid of it. It needed a lot of work as it had been sitting in his pole barn for four or five years at that point and the rodents had gotten to the interior (a bit) and into the engine compartment. The latter was more worrisome to me.
Our long-time mechanic, who knew a bit about the car came out to the house, pulled it out of the garage, and hauled it to the shop. He didn't even want to put it inside and I don't blame him. Aside from the fact the the interior smelled horrible, there we didn't know what the local squirrel population had chewed through. He put a charger on it, but didn't feel as though he wanted to leave it unattended. Nothing burned up, although the battery turned out to be shot. Danny then cleaned out the air box, put in a battery, and the thing started right up, much to everyone's surprise! It also blew crap out of the tailpipe for quite a bit. At that point, I took it and had some folks take a stab at the interior. That proved more of a problem, but they got it livable, if not saleable. I drove back up to PA, and dragged the car to MD. It proved pretty reliable though, and the odor went away. In fact the car continued to prove reliable enough, even with the flaky computer, that I wound up hanging on to it. It's got fewer than 70,000 miles on it.
In addition to the computer, I had to have a mechanical switch put on the cooling fans. This was actually a "quick fix" for the first of the symptoms of the computer issues. At the same time I also had it switched over to regular coolent.
Aside from that, I put tires on it, replace the "Cigar Lighter" socket, and the driver's side window regulator. Amazingly little for a car that was in the condition that it was in when it came out of the barn.
Up to very recently, it's been reliable and a lot of fun for both SMBO and me to drive. Anyway, following is a list of projects that I need to get to...
Investigate various warning lights and DTC codes that may or may not be related to the ECM.
Driver's door lost all of the electrics last week. (May be part of some ongoing issues with the door. Shouldn't be too hard to fix. Riiight.)
Reinstall that #$%_)* radio antenna so that it closes all the way.
Inspect, Repair or Replace Shock Actuators (This one may go to a specialist, although the actuators don't look too inaccessible..)
Shocks?
Other things that I only remember when I'm on the road.
Detail inside and outside. It's been a couple of years and it's time.
Drivers side window regulator. <sigh> It wasn't working when I got the computer reinstalled. I disassembled the door, tried tapping the motor, and tested the switch, yesterday. And ordered a replacement motor today. That looks like that's next weekend's project.
On the bright side, the ECM came back yesterday and I installed it last night. This weekend, I'm going to drive the car a bit and see what codes pop.
With the new (re-floated) computer installed, I drove the car (out of necessity) to work last week. Getting there was fine but it quit, out of nowhere, on my way home. (For those just tuning in, this was one of the reasons that I yanked and sent the computer out.)
Anyway, I waited long enough to smoke part of a cigar and then the thing started right up. Home I went. Did I mention that the courtesy lights weren't going off?
So, yesterday I went out and put a charger on the battery and pulled the courtesy light fuse.
Today, I went out and started the thing and, while it started immediately, as usual, it ran quite roughly for a bit, blew some smoke, smoothed out and... quit. Out of nowhere. I waited a bit, started it again and it ran. Shut it down, waited a couple of hours, went out and pulled the codes. I cleared them but it looks like I'm down to two:
H 25 (Courtesy lamp relay coil open or shorted to ground.)
H 28 (Quad driver module #3.)
There was also a C-25 but I'm assuming that's because the engine wasn't running. I'm going to go out and pull the other (5A, passengers' side) courtesy lamp fuse, and I'll deal with that whole issue separately (as part of replacing a door switch that may actually *be* the issue).
But what about "Quad Driver" issue? Any suggestions for that one?
Was that a replacement ECM or did you have it repaired? I had mine in my '92 repaired as it had some cold solder joints, a common problem with the 92-93 ECMs. I was getting all kinds of weird symptoms and odd codes.
Jim, I had it repaired. Replacements weren't available when I checked over the last few years. Agreed on the weird codes, etc. I had a local mechanic put a reader on the car a year or so ago, and it kept disconnecting -- after catching all sorts of weird codes, including some that don't exist...
I drove the car for about 10 miles this afternoon, mostly on secondary roads and made a couple of notes.
-Hard to start. It would fire almost immediately but not start. I fed in a bit of gas and it started running raggedly and then smoothed out to a normal idle.
-Pulled out of the driveway and noticed that system was flashing on the console. That continued throughout the ride.
-When I attempted to start forward, the car cut out as soon as I shifted to drive. This continued for a bit.
-I drove around a long block and got the thing washed without shutting it down. It was behaving and didn't stall out at all while drifting through the wash.
-Pulled out of the car wash and the hesitation was less but still noticeable. I thought about heading home but decided to drive in around a seven or eight mile block.
-By the time I got about halfway through, the car was performing normally with no warning lights (including no SRC!). System is still on the console.
-Car shut down with no issues and started right up again at the end of the ride.
I'll pull the codes again in a bit, and I think I try a bit more of a distance tomorrow if the car seems OK. It's a 30 mile or so trip to work from here and it almost worked last week.
Yeah see if any codes are present. If that code 32 is still there, look at the opti harness. Passenger side. If the connections on both ends are clean, and not bent, bad opti. But yeah fuel pressure is a very easy test. So do that first.
I'm with the above. Fuel pressure is easy to check and can tell you a lot about running issues. The optispark distributor is know to cause random no starts and odd running issues. If it were my car I would replace the unit and continue my diag knowing that one of the largest failure points on an LT1 has been replaced. The opti harness should be clean and free of oil on the connector. It is possible that a rodent has begun to chew it but not completely. Its worth a look. You may also want to replace the spark plugs and wire when you do the opti. When I did mine on my 94 I also replaced the coil as it was weak and shortly after the ICM (ignition control module) failed and I replaced that. The ICM drives the coil and the coil sends spark to the opti. That can help you in your diag of the ignition system. GM rarely has pin fit issues with the weatherpack connectors unless the retaining tab is broken and the insulation is missing or hardened.
Next, I would inspect the grounding points and make sure they're clean and secure. Keep us updated on hat you find and feel free to share some pics of the car!
Thanks a lot for the feedback. The car started right up this morning. I didn't drive it but I did pull the codes again. (This is after I cleared them the other day.)
CCM
25 (Courtesy lamp relay coil circuit open or shorted to ground) I replaced the broken door switch but the cargo and courtesy lights do not switch off when the doors close, even if you wait for ten or 15 minutes. I have the fuse pulled again and will start with checking the grounds once I locate them. My FSM has a neat little list of grounds but I haven't found a location diagram yet.
ABS/ASR
72 Serial data link malfunction in the FSM although one other source cites this as a "ROM Incident."
I feel like I have a starting point now. With the fuse for the courtesy lights pulled, I think the place to start is with that #15 and the sensor. This error has appeared before and would explain why the car was running so rich occasionally, wouldn't it? Additionally, the first step of the trouble-shooting table in my FSM says to resolve othr DTCs first.
A bit of a side note. Is it worth picking up a "Tech 1" if I'm going to keep this car? They're not that expensive on eBay. I actually just purchased an Innova reader that was supposed to read the 1993 codes, but doesn't. (It doesn't connect to my computer either, so it's going back.) The only reason that I didn't get a Tech 1 this time was that I was unsure of what modules to make sure I got with it.
Just a quick progress report. Wednesday I pulled the interior panels off of both doors and looked for shorts. Nothing obvious. I did notice a very thick wire on the driver's side door that looked like it was shielded. I'm guessing that is for an antenna for the proximity lock system?
Anyway, I decided to hold off on reassembling until the window regulator and new sound insulation comes in from Ecklers. I was very surprised to find them with the lowest price for the regulator.
Next, I'm going to pull the courtesy relay and do the tests from the FSM.
Oh, and I'm pleased to report that I found the ground location diagram in the FSM. That's really not a book that you can thumb through, is it?
I also put a new air filter in, and at the same time pulled and cleaned up with some contact cleaner, the plug on the low temp sensor on the front of the block. We'll see if what happens with those as soon as I get the doors back together and drive the thing a bit.
Just a quick progress report. Wednesday I pulled the interior panels off of both doors and looked for shorts. Nothing obvious. I did notice a very thick wire on the driver's side door that looked like it was shielded. I'm guessing that is for an antenna for the proximity lock system?
Anyway, I decided to hold off on reassembling until the window regulator and new sound insulation comes in from Ecklers. I was very surprised to find them with the lowest price for the regulator.
Next, I'm going to pull the courtesy relay and do the tests from the FSM.
Oh, and I'm pleased to report that I found the ground location diagram in the FSM. That's really not a book that you can thumb through, is it?
I also put a new air filter in, and at the same time pulled and cleaned up with some contact cleaner, the plug on the low temp sensor on the front of the block. We'll see if what happens with those as soon as I get the doors back together and drive the thing a bit.
Best,
Jerry
Unhappy that I'm *still* waiting for my back-ordered window regulator. The car is still sitting with both doors disassembled. I'm going to call Ecklers to find out if the part is going to be shipped this week or if they're going to change the date for the third (fourth?) time.
Progress to report this time although it's minimal. Up to this point, "progress" has been defined as charging the battery up and moving the car around the driveway or driving it around the block every couple of months...
But:
Still fussing with the window regulator. Doors are still taken apart. My fault and not Ecklers' this time though. Although they sent me the wrong one after the back-order debacle, they were very good about issuing an RMA and sending me a Fedex label. Cue too much going on in my world (again) and when I finally tried to print the label, it had expired. Cue a hurricane and Ecklers having to deal with that. I finally got through to them and we've got everything squared away. The part should be in stock once they get the one I have back. And that one is ready to ship. Wheeee!
In other news, I got a MasterTech 3100 that turned out to be pretty much unused. That came with an 81-95 Ford, GM, and Chrysler (83-95) Powertrain cart in addition to the MFT card and all the adapters. When I opened the card storage section of the case, I found another Powertrain cart, this one 81-96... To say I'm happy about that would be an understatement.
But wait there's more. The week before this, I scored a Mac Tools version of the MT3100 for about $125. That one was a thrift store find and the seller had no idea whether or not it worked. I switched out the batteries and it did although there may be some flakiness with the display. That one has a Toyota card with it I got some adapters that I picked up from another seller as I knew I'd need to GM one for my car.
And then I saw a Tech one with the latest version of Mass Storage cart, and also carts for the Powertrain, Chassis, and Body as well. (And some others too.) I tried to get the fellow to sell me the MSC, but no dice, so now I have that coming as well.
Right now I've get the battery on my car charging and tomorrow, I'm going to get out and start running down codes! I may be able to drive the durn thing again this year yet!
PS, anyone need a tech one or a Mac 2100? Not sure what I want for them yet as I don't have the tech one in hand yet.
Note: The short version is that the 15 and 28 are resovled, I think. The details are more for my benefit as I've never tried to use the FSM charts for troubleshooting.
Last night I started the car. It started right up on the first try, so I took it for a short run. The car was running fine, although the sys indicator was flashing periodically. I parked it and put the battery back on. This morning, I tried to start it and had the same behaviours as if has been exhibiting: engine would crank and fire but would not start easily. (The car usually starts right up.)
I pulled the codes and the 15 and 28 were back.
Ran through the ODB System Check chart successfully and proceeded to the page for DTC 15.
Test 1. I pulled the detailed data list and the Coolant Temp was showing as below -30C.
Test 2. I shorted the harness terminals together and the temp showed as over 130C.
Per the diagnostic, the issue should be a faulty connection or Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor. I l cleaned the terminal and tried again with similar results.
The Diagnostic Aid section notes that Test 2 (shorting the terminals together) indicated that the ECM and wiring were OK, so I replaced the sensor. ($18ish)
The replacement was simple (which is good because it's been years since I turned a wrench on a car motor...) I didn't drain the coolant but rather set up to divert any spillage into a tray under the car. As it happens, I was pretty fast and there was no coolant beyond the cardboard.
I pulled the temp again and it was normal. The car started immediately.
Then I proceeded to the DTC 28 Code for Quad Driver Module.
Test 1. Switch on engine off. Trigger Fan 1 relay. The relay does not respond.
This triggers a memory from when I first fot the car! The relay is bypassed and the fan runs off of an analog temp sensor switch. This was because a mechanic suggested that the relays fail regularly. I had completely forgotten about that.
As the rest of the QDM functions (trigger Fan 2 and AC) work, I think I can count that one resolved for now at least.
This weekend: interior lights.
Next weekend, hopefully, the drivers' side window.
This week I spent some time on the CCM error 25 (Courtesy lamp relay coil circuit open or shorted to ground). As I've noted in prior posts, this issue first presented as interior lights flashing on and off randomly while driving. I reset and later replaced one of the door switches but the problem continued to progress. It culminated with the interior lights failing to switch off through the Delayed Accessory Bus (DAB). I also noticed a buzzing noise that I thought was coming through the audio system when the interior lights were activated. And a dead battery a couple of times before I realized exactly what was going on. At that point, I pulled the coded, found the 25, and as an interim measure pulled the fuses. All of the issues stopped with that action.
Prior to this week, I had disassembled the doors looking for rodent damage and found none.
This week, I started with cleared codes, replaced the fuses and drove the car a bit. It was no surprise at all when the lights acted as before and the bussing returned. I reviewed the troubleshooting information in the FSM and decided to "throw" a part at it first by replacing the relay in question ($10ish locally). The interesting part of the job was finding the relay, which should have been nicely mounted behind the pax knee bolster. It turns out that in order to get to it, I had to pull the glove box and push it down to where it was accessible. Once I did that, it was a simple matter to swap out the relay. At that point the lights and the DAB started working as advertised, however, the buzzing was still evident. Upon closer examination, it proved to be the new relay that was buzzing when the system was activated. I swapped the new relay out for the old one and the system remained operable.
Thursday, I drove the car for a few miles to make sure that the ECT sensor wasn't going to leak. The interior lights continue to function, the relay continues to buzz, but the 28 has not reset. Yesterday, I spent a bit pawing around for the ground, unsuccessfully. I'm going to continue in that vein tomorrow, I think. As I may have noted before, the FSM has a neat little list of grounds but I'm still feeling my way around the book and haven't located the right one.
While I was driving the car on Thursday, the Service ABS and Service ASR light came on. This is not new but I immediately pulled the codes through my MasterTech and found a 76 (Lateral Accelerometer out of range). I'm guessing either mouse damage or loose wiring or the part needs replacing. The latter is will cost about $30, I think, and the part is available online. The troubleshooting process looks pretty straight-forward.
Also while I was pawing around under the hood I found the tach-filter, which I had been looking for some time ago but got sidetracked. I did some wiggling and -lo- the tach is working again.
I also discovered that the shields over the fuel injectors snap on and off. Under the passenger's side one, I found a very old rodent nest. There's little or no damage to the wiring under the hood, and maybe a little insulation missing from one wire. I'll clean the rest of that up this week as well as another one under the glove box. Again, no visable wire damage under the dash.
These are actually the only two nests that I've found except for the center console and the rear storage when I originally cleaned the car and I really feel lucky that there's been so little damage to the wiring!
This week I'm going to pursue the interior light issue. Hopefully, I'll also get the window regulator from Ecklers, will be able to take care of that as well. I'd like to get the interior back together. That little project is the only thing keeping the car off the road right now!
I'm also going to revisit the to-do list. I find that I'm enjoying working on the car much more that I have in the past. I might even have to finally clear enough space in the garage to get it inside.
Two weeks ago, after another call with Ecklers, I finally got fed up with waiting for the window regulator... Yes, I'm still waiting, but I've been assured that since they now have the one they sent in error back, and it's been processed, I'll get one from the next batch (that's due in 11/15). I'll believe it when I see it.
Anyway, as I had everything else working, I decided to put the car back together and drive it a bit. More in a couple of other posts about "everything else."
I drove the car around the block and locally for a couple of days and then last Thursday drove it to work over in Laurel, MD. It's a nice 15 mile back road trip and the car ran like a dream. Been driving it every day. I've found some other oddities, and rediscovered a couple of old problems, but nothing that really effects the driveability.
As I've noted in the past, despite the evidence of rodents when I had the car pulled out of Dad's barn, I've found very little actual damage. This time though...
As I was wandering around under the hood in early October, locating the Tach Filter, I noticed an odd color under what turned out to be the passenger-side injector cover. A close look revealed that it was an old acorn. When I tried to grab it, the cover popped right off. (Cool! I didn't know it would do that...)
Anyway, it's apparently been a while since anyone looked under there. I found not only one acorn but an entire stash. And a really big mouse nest too! I pulled everything that didn't belong but I've still got some cleaning to do. I also found that wires on either end of the single plug attached to the head, had been stripped of their insulation.
Now, I had no idea what the plug was for until I hit the FSM. So... bare wires on either side of the Opti plug. Why is this car even running?! As an aside, I wonder if this is why the car cut out at speed the time I had it on the highway? If so that's the only issue that's arisen and it doesn't appear to have hurt anything. In any case, I've since taped up the bare spots pending a more permanent fix.
08-30-2016, 01:43 PM
Jerry's '93 Laundry List
