Not4spd

Thanks for the responses everyone. I'm not set on either of those two. Just figured I entertain some responses/thoughts about earlier vs later C4s. There are plenty in my area for sale and I'm not too far from two states that border my home state. My wife's uncle(lives in Missouri) who owns a 96 I know wouldn't mind taking a look at a few C3/C4s in his area as well. Regardless of what year we get, it's a given any of them are going to need some form of work done. I'd be surprised if I found a flawless one, and even if i did I would have a hard time wrapping my mind around paying C5 prices for a C4.

gerardvg

Hmm
With fresh engine and dash the 85 looks good, however the 91 has ABS and driver airbag = safer than the 85, not to mention 6 years of on going improvements.

Tough call
They both can cost a lot to repair, so get the best one you can

FASTAZU

If you want to stick with the TPI I would go with the 91, I also think the 91 interior is light years ahead of the earlier C4. Seats, dash layout, doors, and center console.

aklim

If you have any interest in modification for power, I'd go to a C5 or later

v8vette84

Why? Plenty of power to be had from the L98/LT1 for a street car...

But I will say C5's are dropping into C4 price territory now. I saw a 97' for sale about a month ago for 5k. So it wouldn't be a bad buy but for that price range they will have issues.

73n95

I have a 73 and a 95. Both are good runners and both need lots of tinkering. While the 95 is pretty contemporary and modern the 73 is pretty crude even by 1973 standards. Everything is pickup truck quality as well as pickup simplicity. Overall its a very forgiving car, as opposed to the 95 which I consider less forgiving but more rewarding. Most repairs on C3's follow shade tree logic and are pretty straight forward. The C4 is much more sophisticated. Unlike the C4's which have ABS, traction control, electronic ignition modules, VAT, power antenna's, Bose stereo's and so on, the C3 is again, pickup truck level of sophistication. I love them both. The C3 gets more attention with those wild curves and its impossible to judge the edge of the hood, even for tall drivers. Parts are cheap and available and the C3 forum is very helpful. There are plenty of them available in any price range. Either way, I like your thinking. I raised my son right getting him into mechanics but unfortunately he is not a Corvette guy, more of a turbo 4cylinder type. Its just an age thing. Oh well, we still enjoy doing car stuff together. I applaud your efforts and I like your thinking.

aklim

You notice that the market is shrinking when it comes to BOTH aftermarket and OEM parts? Tuner choice is less. ABS sensor?

johno504

none of the above ......... find a nice c3

Not4spd

We currently own a C5 which I will drive until the State of Texas deems me unfit to drive



My wife and I will be purchasing a C6 Grand Sport next year. Thus the reason we are looking for a C4 or possibly a C3 now. Any modifications done to the C4/C3 will be your run of the mill basic mods: full exhaust and intake. We would like to own multiple generation Corvettes.

When our daughter turns 16 we would love to have the 3 different generation Corvettes at shows, car meets, and cruises.

Paul Workman

I hope you're joking... But, we've seen this said before on this site, by those truly serious - and go so far as to even preferring carbs/C3 Vettes over modern computer controlled systems. (Some have even reverted their C4s to carbs...OMG... Yeah, I know...The 81 had a computer controlled carb, and of course there's the X-fire CFI system in 82 Vette.)

There is a TON of dynamic info provided with a scanner - other than seeing what codes are set, e.g., integrator values, injector dwell time, rpm values, cross-counts...42 different OBD-1 readings in all; MORE if a Tech-1 is at hand (e.g., actual ability to control the ECM to perform certain tests, etc).

I have a 69 C3 and an 81 C3 and now have/had 3 C4s. There is NO WAY I would ever go back to carbs in preference over FI and the computer(s).

Besides... Computers are here to stay. Why immerse a young son/daughter in "ancient" or at least truly obsolete tech instead of being able to learn data-logging, etc and REALLY understand what is going on under the hood???

Just sayin.

Paul Workman

The aftermarket stuff available for the LSx platform is (from an LT5 standpoint) insane!

Larrye

OP....if everything considered between the 2 cars is equal, then it becomes a personal choice, which car do you like better? Nothing wrong with an '85, I have one and love the car, Atari dash and all! Relatively fresh paint and engine overhaul when bought 5 years ago, has been a great ride.

I really like the '91 Vette as well, very well executed interior and just enough upgrades on the earlier C4 technology that makes everything come together in a balanced machine.

With 38 years in the car business, I can tell you that just because a car is newer, or even has less miles, that it does not necessarily make it the better buy. Each car must be evaluated on the merits, and those include condition and prior care if it can be determined.

Good luck in your search, the chase is most of the fun!

aklim

It's not just aftermarket. OEM is a problem too. It took me more than one vendor to get all the hoses for power steering and even that, there was uncertainty. ABS sensor and controlling unit? Not really. Many parts are only available to the junkyard. Is it going to get better? Nope, worse.

v8vette84

You had a hard time getting power steering hoses? Also ABS controllers are notoriously hard to find no matter what. (Unless it's brand new) (Also it took me a whole 30 seconds to find C4 ABS components on ebay, granted they are not new but they are available) Still, how often does somebody need an ABS controller? Also I see what you are saying about the ABS sensor but again they are not a common part to break so therefore the aftermarket has not swept in and made the parts widely available.

Also you were talking power before, why switch to general parts? There is no shortage of parts to make the LT1 a monster but there are some parts areas that are lacking because the C4 is too old for GM parts and too new for major aftermarket support. The LT1 itself has no parts issues, only the C4. Even the 4th gen F-bodies don't have many parts shortcomings.

You say it's only going to get worse. I'm neutral regarding that statement, it might get worse for a short time but eventually the aftermarket will pick up the missing parts and make them available again.

aklim

Why do you think I ordered from one vendor, was had to wait for it? They had one only, the other 2 would be available maybe in a month or two if they make it, or not. Last one, no longer available. This is a major vendor. Last one was from yet another major vendor after calling to others.

I have some ABS issue. Asked a couple places to clean them and see if it solves the problem. I was advised to hold off until it failed completely and try because they don't have sensors available and if damaged on the way out, I will be SOL like a couple of his customers who had to bypass ABS completely. Yes, I know you can get salvaged units but while I do not need to drive the car, once it gets moving, stopping is not optional. So I will only use a salvage ABS sensor as a last resort. So yes, I consider it NLA if I can't get new and have to scrounge suspect items.

You notice that the market aftermarket items are shrinking? TPIS used to make items that they obsoleted. Even their headers are backordered, as an example. FX3 programs? LPE does not have any more. Bilstein can't help either. If you want it reprogrammed, find a used chip. Tuning is harder to find. Many shops don't want to dyno tune that "old stuff".

Based on what, besides good hope? The C4 number is shrinking daily and they aren't a particularly valuable car from a collection standpoint.

v8vette84

Oh that's right I forgot. When ABS doesn't work you loose all your braking ability....

You don't have to find a used chip to tune...

There is still mail order tuning available for chipped PCMs. Hell even the TBI systems still have people tuning them. Maybe not that many people but there are still people out there. True it's not a dyno tune but I would be willing to bet most street cars are running a mail order tune and not a dyno tune anyways. You can get damn close to dyno tune numbers with datalogging and adjusting.

Like I said before I think the supply will get worse before it gets better but it WILL get better. There's still tons of C4's out there and people buying parts for them. Do you think companies will pull completely out of the C4 market just because? I doubt it unless they are loosing money on the product. You can't use niche companies making niche products for the C4 as an example of the overall market. All the items you are talking about are very low volume products or services. I have no doubt they are evaporating but the common/major parts will never go away completely.

Not trying to start a fight or be rude but using TPIS and LPE to judge the C4 parts market is insane.... Though I will say I'm surprised even Bilstein won't do it anymore but again they must be loosing money or can't justify the program based on cost.

Well if most parts truly do get very scarce it will at least help C4 values as the junkier versions will not be able to be fixed or at least fixed cheap so they will be put aside and will rot and then get parted out or junked. Good and bad I guess.

aklim

Neither me nor the wife was brought up old school. As such, we don't have the muscle memory for pumping. All our cars are ABS and I'd much rather keep it that way instead of either of us having to hit the brakes hard and lock them up thinking they would pulse for us so yes, I can do normal braking but seeing as how I hit the car hard, I'd have to get used to pulsing it. Brakes and AC are a deal breaker for me. Either one of them not at 100% and I don't have ABS, I'd walk. If you gave me a pristine C3 without AC or ABS, I'd wait till I see your tailights before I put out a "for sale" on it.

Sorry I gave the impression that you need a used chip to tune. You need a wideband O2 sensor, software and a dyno to tune.

Maybe, maybe not. I had my 7.3 Powerstroke with the "Guess a tune". We couldn't get it to run right till we gave up and got a datalogging unit and suddenly the hesitation at 2000 rpm disappeared. Also had the guess a tune done on the Vette enough to get it to the faculty. I guess it is a different philosophy. I want my stuff dialed in and not guessed at and for the number of times it would take to datalog on a dyno would be expensive since there is setup time. If I wanted "close enough", I'd be with carbs since that is what they are excellent at. 2 Jetskis were traded in for EFI, 1 ATV (wife's) was traded in for the next year model with EFI and this leaves only the lawn equipment. You couldn't GIVE me a carb car.

I agree the TPI or LT1 engine has enough common parts that they are going to be around for a long time more. So if you concern is the 700R4 and the engine, you are correct. As to getting better, it will only do so when there is a financial justification. Whether they see lower hanging fruit in the newer cars or decide that they want to make a quality part for an older car that didn't have any real claim to fame is another story.

Why the surprise at Bilstein? They used to be able to sell more aggressive ones because there were more people. After which, they stopped doing it because the volume was getting so low it wasn't worth their time. So what you say is possible but that would have to be a huge enough demand. With more and more C4s being parted out for salvage, there are less and less people asking for things. I was using LPE and TPIS as an example. Even the Corvette places are having less and less availability. Like I said, I had to wait for the company to make a production run before CC got some. How long before that company decides to quit altogether?

Good news, your market share is growing. Bad news, it is a shrinking market that others are abandoning. I suspect it will hit a rock bottom at some point and might stabilize to a point where if you want something, you wait and pay what they ask. So common parts are going to be easier. Not common, well..... In my case, I have enough money sunk into it that I won't get anything close to what I put in. I knew that going in so I am just riding it out till something major breaks like the motor. After which, probably eBay the corpse and move on to something much newer. While I like my C4, I suspect that unlike you, I am not in love with it.

v8vette84

Just another car eh?

aklim

It is a performance car that was once king. As has been said, "The king is dead. Long live the king.". When that king is replaced by the next king, see above. History does NOT interest me in this sense. I am interested in the present and future. When you are king, enjoy it. When your reign is over, it is over. Or as the disclaimer goes "past performance is no guarantee of future gains".

v8vette84

So why do you apparently own a C4 and hang around in the past (C4 section)?