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There's a lot of truth out there that everything is pretty fast today. A V6 Honda Accord will run the 1/4 as fast as many late 60's muscle cars would. I love the older cars as they have " character".
The younger generation is still active around performance cars when you see them with imports, Mustangs, Camaro etc. Tuner market is huge which when I was younger the tuner market consisted of a high rise intake, headers, Holley carbs and dual point distributors. As long as there's fuel they'll be fun. Electric cars aren't exactly slow either.
I look back at all the cars I've owned and besides my C3 and C4 Vettes I'm amazed at how technology has created some unreal cars. I had a 2012 CTS-V which would smoke almost everything out there. Currently my daily driver is an Audi S6. Underrated at 420 hp with Quattro the launch on this is crazy.
My son has a 2013 Boss 302 Mustang and many of his friends are motorheads as well. Today's cars are exciting just way more civilized with handling, braking and comfort.
Other comments were about fast boats. I have these two jetskis...you want to talk performance? 260hp from a 3cyl supercharged intercooled motor. That's my crazy son jumping...this 55 yr old ain't doing that!Sea Doo now has them pumped up to 300 on the new ones. The launch on these are so much fun and they go @70 on the water. Performance is not over today. Nothing is boring...it's just reinventing itself!
I like this thread and have been thinking a few of these thoughts lately since I purchased an '89 coupe with manual this past spring. I like the way the car feels, sounds, and drives and it makes me happy. Many of you have pointed out that more modern cars are just better engineered and built (and I have a 2007 300C SRT8 that will utterly spank the "vette) but I enjoy driving each for different reasons. I think we are seeing some amazing cars these days across most of the manufacturers and I agree with a previous post that we are, and are getting, spoiled. Maybe the gasoline powered auto mobile HAS peaked.
Some quick comparisons here on a quiet Monday morning:
We are so good at building engines these days that what was once exotic is now mundane. I am simply amazed at what we are getting out of naturally aspirated V6s these days.
Gearing and suspension is what makes the same hp these days so much quicker/ faster than old.
i remember so much buzz and hype when the c4 zr-1 came out in 1989. many people i knew talked about it / dreamed about it.
so much faster than the 4 cylider ford tempos we all drove as DD's.
nowdays everything is fast. a fast car just doesnt seem as exciting as it once did.
roads are more congested, theres more people. spirited driving makes you an a-ho1e to others on the road. ive had the experience of a c7 corvette trying to pass me, on the right, at 120 mph (no, theres not enough time to recognize a car coming up on you that fast to move over and it apparently didnt matter i was running 10 over the speed limit anyways)
a friend of mine at dodge confirmed that they are looking to put the hellcat engine into police cars. soon, the cops will have more power than you do, for free and they will be allowed to drive like that while you arent.
so where is this hobby headed ? is a fast car just not as cool as it once was ?
or has my attitude / enthusiasm changed ?
Maybe the hobby itself is dying out. 100 years a certain kid's toy was all the rage, today it is garbage. I wouldn't worry about what is cool or who thinks you are an a-hole. Goes without saying that if you want to play, you gotta pay.
I am afraid/concerned of those self-driving cars. For many years I built computers for people and saw electronic components sourced from overseas fail. One big failure that drug in a major player involved industrial espionage
There is no guarantee that this will not happen with these self driving autos. Just like it was said in Jurassic Park "Just because you could, doesn't mean you should".
I built a bunch of machines for people that failed in one year. The capacitors (looks like little batteries) started erupting. Then the boards died. Lasted long enough to get through the warranty period.
It would be a tragedy for those dang cars to start wrecking.
If a self driver wrecks a wall, it will go all over news. Fact is, those cars have a lot of catching up to do when compared to humans who have been cracking cars against things for decades. I think if done properly, I'd trust the machine more than any human
He told me lot's of guys are using the older corvette motors and front ends in 55 Chey's now.
Pop the hood on our '55 Nash Rambler 2 door and gape at the Mustang GT 5.0L that looks like ole Kelvinator installed it. NO hint outside, save the quiet dual exhaust. I kinda PO'ed a silver C6 driver who was (operable word: was) too full of himself to consider a stodgy old - what the heck is that car - ROLLS.
Then, under the hood of my '55 F100, sitting atop '84 Corvette suspension, is a (carbureted-for-now) 383 L83, while weighing 700 lbs. less than my Shinoda '84. One day, HotRodRoy will work his porting magic on a waiting CFI, then watch for local shock and awe!
Last edited by whalepirot; 08-15-2017 at 12:43 AM.
Is it possible that these newer high horsepower cars will become throw away vehicles? Meaning as they get older with all the electronics built into them that parts will be hard to find so owners won't bother or be able to keep them running for 15 to 20 years. A good example are C4s, quality parts are getting hard to find so the resale value is low compared to the C3, C2, C1 Vettes.
I think this is the reason the older 60s, 70s, 80s cars still have value (no computers or complicated electronics to try to replace) mechanical parts are still available.
Is it possible that these newer high horsepower cars will become throw away vehicles? Meaning as they get older with all the electronics built into them that parts will be hard to find so owners won't bother or be able to keep them running for 15 to 20 years. A good example are C4s, quality parts are getting hard to find so the resale value is low compared to the C3, C2, C1 Vettes.
I think this is the reason the older 60s, 70s, 80s cars still have value (no computers or complicated electronics to try to replace) mechanical parts are still available.
I think that throwaway is not a concept paper. It is a done deal. We went from the Zippo lighter to the 30 pack Bic. People don't want to hassle with flint and fuel. They want to light up, toss when empty. With mass production, I can't afford have my TV fixed. You have to work at it knowing that you are going uphill. I like my car. I'm not in love with it. Struggling is NO fun so a new one comes along and I'll buy it, economics permitting.
Anyone thinking police departments will shell out the money and liability for hellcat powered patrol vehicles are delusional. MAYBE a few small town departments will do it if the one making the decision will be driving it but a lot of MAJOR issues with this...
1. Cost. It is what drives everything for 99% of police departments.
2. Liability. It goes back to cost as well, but the stakes of department liability are at the forefront of every pursuit policy followed in the country. MANY large departments have a practically ZERO pursuit policy. Why would you need a faster car?
3. Repairs. Police vehicles are maintained as a fleet. Parts availability/commonality is a HUGE bonus for the standard HEMI powered vehicles.
Anyone thinking police departments will shell out the money and liability for hellcat powered patrol vehicles are delusional. MAYBE a few small town departments will do it if the one making the decision will be driving it but a lot of MAJOR issues with this...
1. Cost. It is what drives everything for 99% of police departments.
2. Liability. It goes back to cost as well, but the stakes of department liability are at the forefront of every pursuit policy followed in the country. MANY large departments have a practically ZERO pursuit policy. Why would you need a faster car?
3. Repairs. Police vehicles are maintained as a fleet. Parts availability/commonality is a HUGE bonus for the standard HEMI powered vehicles.
We've now had two V6 Challengers because of super-commuting (160 daily). A 2011 and now a 2015. Didn't want to feed a second V8.
The Pentastar is amazing. 305 HP, 0-60 in about 6 seconds (in a 4000 pound car?) and I've broke 130 in it multiple times. As a bonus it averages 26-28 mpg depending on Winter or Summer gas (or my wife's lead foot).
Yes, it's comfortable, stable and exciting to drive, even for a V6. Disposable? It's hard to put that label on today's vehicles when they easily last 200k with proper maintenance.
so where is this hobby headed ? is a fast car just not as cool as it once was ?
or has my attitude / enthusiasm changed ?
In my opinion? Completely opposite directions.. Forward and backward, simultaneously.
On the top end, the buy in is prohibitively high and it changes constantly. It's almost like computing. The newest, hottest thing is always 6 months out and costs a fortune. They'll still sell C8's, but riding the every changing wave of newest and hottest is expensive and a lot of people can't afford the buy in and many others won't bother. Especially in a world of 12 second 4 cylinders.
On the bottom end, following along on the heels of technology will be very rewarding, and we're seeing it everywhere with the LS Swap craze. The old stuff is retro cool, now. In many ways, that black Monte SS with an LS and all the throwback looks and boxiness is cooler than a new Hellcat.
"Fast" has been achieved.. It's not the end all it once was, and it's easier and cheaper to get there than it ever has been.
Retro is where it will be for the hot rodders, which might be a big bump for the C4. It's the perfect platform. It's got the looks and enough technology, handling and creature comforts to be a perfect "retro" throwback platform.
PS: I think if the self driving car ever "gets there" the auto makers will soon realize they killed the golden goose.
A box you sit in doesn't have the magic.. If I am forced into one, I won't care who made it or anything else. I'll want a safe box that is affordable to operate, and reasonably comfortable. The name on the outside won't matter, and no amount of marketing will be able to change that, either. It'll always just be a box.
For fast acceleration (0-60, 1/8 mile) the Tesla and similar EVs are the future. I think self driving cars will take off, but won't last long once a big manufacturer has some major software or hardware glitch.
PS: I think if the self driving car ever "gets there" the auto makers will soon realize they killed the golden goose.
A box you sit in doesn't have the magic.. If I am forced into one, I won't care who made it or anything else. I'll want a safe box that is affordable to operate, and reasonably comfortable. The name on the outside won't matter, and no amount of marketing will be able to change that, either. It'll always just be a box.
Nobody cares about the future. My bonus is based on this quarter or year. Next year I may be somewhere else. I may be replaced or whatever. That is next year's problem.
For fast acceleration (0-60, 1/8 mile) the Tesla and similar EVs are the future. I think self driving cars will take off, but won't last long once a big manufacturer has some major software or hardware glitch.
I think they had this discussion when the car replaced the horse.
Nobody cares about the future. My bonus is based on this quarter or year. Next year I may be somewhere else. I may be replaced or whatever. That is next year's problem.
I kind of see American muscle cars like the Bond series, Batman or Star Wars/Trek.. A franchise that can live forever. A license to print money till the end of time, as long as you don't screw it up..
On the bottom end, following along on the heels of technology will be very rewarding, and we're seeing it everywhere with the LS Swap craze. The old stuff is retro cool, now. In many ways, that black Monte SS with an LS and all the throwback looks and boxiness is cooler than a new Hellcat.
08-14-2017, 07:05 PM
