Phoenix'97

I think I am going to get all the help I can get with this build. However, with every joke, I am only more inspired. It will be some time before this new car comes to fruition but if I can make a factory TPI fit on my LT1 and clear the metal overhead cowl, and if can manage to pull off a 396 stroker LT1 within the parameters I have set between two threads, I am left wondering if I should even share that dyno data and pictures of when she is finally done. Hey, she will be a closely guarded secret when driving the street...

It is a shame when people can't embrace attempts to use "old technology" to enhance their driving experience when they can't really afford all that newer and "better" technology...

Phoenix'97

(Sigh) This message found it's way to my e-mail but was not posted to this thread, odd as heck. How many more failed to make it on the threads?

I have been checking out other posts by TPI owners who have stroked motors on this forum. I am trying to narrow down why my proposed build won't work as I intend it to. I want the quick low RPM launching fun without the need to keep that power going beyond 5000 RPM. There is no safe place to do such a thing and where I don't need to worry about crossing traffic in the form of cars or people! I want the car to run out of breath starting at 3000 RPM and really choking by 4500 RPM. This works into my equation, for safety and for fuel economy, as hard as it is to believe! Why will a naturally aspirated stroker using the factory restricted TPI intake, be so problematic? Will it hurt my motor if I force it beyond where it chokes for air? I need specific answers, not attempts to dissuade me.

Yes, I have seen the short runner TPI intake but why the hell would I swap my LT1 intake for a TPI intake that is trying to replicate the performance of an LT1 intake? I am deliberately detuning my car, focusing on low end torque and having it crap out at higher RPM!

Yes, I know you guys won't care for dyno results and I know anything my car would get would not be impressive by your standards. This is a daily driver car and basically tire spinning/burnout launches and neck wrenching rocket launches with modest throttle down is my goal! The car has cubes, the car has tons of low end torque, but she is deliberately going to be restricted from total performance. The public roads are not safe for this and this car is not meant to spur on car racing.

383vett

This thread has got to be a game to see how many forum members can be suckered into entertaining the op's rediculous questions. Come on guys, building a 396 so it can be detuned to run in snow in a Fiirebird with fuel economy a major requirement. The op and his buddies are laughing at the expense of forum members trying to help. Stop entertaining this troll.

Phoenix'97

I learn so much more from other threads and older threads...
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-5500-rpm.html

I am going to seek other opinions elsewhere on this matter. A lot of research needs to be done if I am hell bent on this TPI intake. I am not even sure how it will effect my LT1 with cold start ups. I may end up being stuck with my LT1 intake.

856SPEED

Do you find this to be more entertaining than video games??

aklim

I understand all that. As to restricting from total performance, I thought your right foot does that? In my car it does.

Phoenix'97

Yeah, but what about a mechanics shop when my car needs to spend the day and one night? I have been suspicious of possible horsing around in my car when my clutch seemed more worn down one day, and making a subtle noise when engaged. aklim, I have many reasons for why I want RPM restriction on my motor! It is not just for "safety", it is not just for potential "fuel economy" reasons, it's not because I don't trust myself nor my right foot, it's not just for the fact that I don't need performance beyond 5000 RPM and approaching 5000 RPM, it's simply what I want! There was a guy on LS1 tech who said he had a built in system that deliberately restricted RPM range to 3000 whenever he took his car to the mechanics shop, simply because he didn't trust them with his car. I may try to do the same thing when I get my car overhauled. Now, back on topic!

I may get my car stroked, or I may decide to go with the Crane 227 camshaft and start increasing airflow and bumping up performance to kingdom come! This is a balancing act and I am trying to figure out what build will suit my needs! The stroker proposal may require I keep my LT1 intake but I want a way to shut down performance as if I have a TPI intake, and that is where I could have the tuner reduce fuel at a certain RPM, if that can be done. Otherwise with the Crane 227 cam idea, I will see how well the TPI intake idea will stack up and if I can even squish it down an inch, preferably two. From the looks of it, underneath the plenum at the very front, I could have the metal shaved down if it will protrude too much to flush it with the fuel rails. Everything seems to be questionable with the very front of the plenum, but towards the rear, there is a good gap to work with. Then, I may need to have the fuel rails adjusted to work with my LT1 fuel lines.

I need your advice. If I were to go with a stroker set-up, what is the problem with using a totally stock TPI intake? I don't care about losing performance or not achieving the maximum potential of the motor. I am playing a game of balancing my wants with the conditions I will face for daily driving. With a TPI intake on a stroker motor, will the extra cubes result in more severe power loss and sooner on the RPM band as opposed to using a mild camshaft? Is that the problem here? From 1000 RPM to 4000 RPM, this is where my focus is in terms of torque production, expressway passing power, and where I have "fun" when I go from a green light with no cars ahead of me and none that can change into my lane up ahead.

Tell me what you think. Do I need to enlarge the runners like all other TPI owners with stroked motors? I am exploring my options and testing the waters of absurdity to see how far I can go!

ghoastrider1

I call BS on your comments about the 18 wheeler. I am a retired 18 wheeler/CDL? over the road driver. You have trouble driving a big truck in the snow, you need your license taken away b4 you kill someone.

drcook

A classic example of an automotive forum circle j*rk.

Phoenix'97

Where did I say, at any time, I could not drive an 18-wheeler in the snow? Clearly someone has not read this thread in total, nor the other thread I made. That is okay, you can't answer the question about the TPI intake on an LT1, so you make jokes or take the conversation in a totally irrelevant direction. It's perfectly fine, I will find someone who can help me with this curiosity of mine.

You know what, I am used to it. If jokes are supposed to count for know-how then I am clearly in the wrong forum, AGAIN. It is very sad that no TPI owners are supporting the notion of someone curious enough to go out of their way to try to make the stock TPI intake fit on an F-body 5.7L LT1. To stroke it, or not to stroke it, someone will have the answer...

H P Bushrod

It wouldn't be wise for them to come back.

aklim

Unless you check the mileage for unreasonable driving, we don't even have a case to begin with as far as accusing the mechanic on a feeling. Wife had a feeling that her new glasses were much heavier than the told and were causing her a headache by pressing on the nose. Post office scale said the new ones were lighter. Headache cured. I really don't place much faith in people feeling something. There is the Placebo Effect that needs to be overcome first.

If you really need that, it might be simpler to program the rev limiter to whatever you want to cut fuel injector pulse.

Potential problems are that on a 396, it might not just cut off air after 4000. It might also alter air flow under that. It might make dyno tuning hard if at all possible. Talk to your dyno tuner and see if he can even make it work. Just because you can build it doesn't mean that he can make it work.

Phoenix'97

Well, if you had access to a powerful car at your job, you wouldn't be the least tempted to joyride in it? I could be blowing it out of proportion but when I start to notice little details that are off with the functioning of my car, especially when I don't beat the crap out of it and try to do burn outs, and seeing how some guys aggressively engage the clutch on my car, I can't help but feel they played around with my car on off business hours.

That is what I was afraid of. I really have my heart set on a long runner intake for my motor, and the TPI is it considering the LS head avenue I was considering before. I can possibly get a Vortec head TPI base to work with my LT1 heads, but I need to have a machine shop fill in the coolant drainage passages, and then I need to have the intake plenum flush against the fuel rails to even have a chance to fit this intake on my LT1 with the tight fitment issues. I am not even sure if they could compress the runners so they would have to cut out section of them and weld. I hope this doesn't alter airflow too much if I decide to go with a simple camshaft upgrade and then trying to screw around with what is needed to get my motor to produce the low end torque I seek and while using a TPI intake, if it is even possible at that point.

Thank you for your answer, and I apologize for this horribly hypothetical post that no one can really answer. If no one has ever tried to put a TPI intake on an LT1, I can't expect much with certain answers so for that I apologize.

856SPEED

aklim

I have access to my wife's prescription pad when she is asleep. Am I interested in screwing up her career and definitely mine? Probably not. Could they not know how to drive a clutch and the employees try to make it work? Absolutely. Them taking it for a drive doesn't happen as often as you think.

Anything is possible but do you honestly want to throw a bucket of money after another bucket after another to get such an uncommon goal? If you have nothing but money, sure. You can satisfy your curiosity. Most people are trying to increase flow not reduce it. Certainly not hamstring a stroker motor, which by definition is trying to increase power. So not much research is going that way. So what is this goal worth to you? Is it worth it to call Hogan to make you a specific sheet intake? After all that work, if the motor needs dyno tuning, and it definitely will and the tuner spends an inordinate amount of time to make it work on the street, it's on you. Remember, a race car doesn't care about idle quality or anything else but how fast it can go.

Phoenix'97

I sure as sin will not put a sheet metal intake on my car. Furthermore, I thought we had the understanding that I am not building a race car? I just want to swap my LT1 intake and try, TRY, to get a stock TPI intake installed on my LT1 motor! I want more torque on the bottom end of the RPM band and since I don't rev past 5000 RPM, the TPI intake makes a heck of a lot of sense! I don't see the problems in bolting one on, if I can manage to shave off two inches by flushing the plenum with the fuel rails. It looks doable and I am asking around about the clearance up front, which is the most sketchy. If there is room enough, lets compress or shrink those runners to lower the plenum down. I want a long runner intake on my car, not to be different but to improve street performance for my daily driver.

We shall see... This thread drags on but more and more attempts are being made to persuade me into making my car more a race car than a daily driver. Everything I am looking for is what the third gen F-body or early C4 was built with but I won't play games trying to swap an L98 into my car, lord knows it won't clear my cowl with that 3 1/2 inch too tall TPI intake!

GREGGPENN

The problem is...it HAS been answered. I TOLD you there were longtube bases for LTx cars (very limited). And, unless they reported it and never did it, FFI listed a longtube intake for LTx. At least they used to.

The BIGGER problem is you won't listen.

It's been suggested your best option is a stroker YET you keep barking up a tree that represents REDICULOUS customization costs with an unpromising return. Cutting down a longtube intake to make it fit where a short-runner intake was installed makes ZERO sense to anyone practical. If you think your "dreamer" approach gives some weird permission to call EVERYONE else combative because you think practical advice is disappointing, you need to rethink what advice really is.

You want a stroker (or maybe you don't...who knows) that has limited top-end breathing. How many seconds did you consider building a stroker under your existing top-end? ZERO. NONE. Because you are TOO FRIGGEN BUSY chasing some ill-advised dream that's IMPRACTICAL for your situation.

Newer engines are the most powerful, most economical "solutions" so far. If you're SO SET on maximum torque with minimal mpg, you should consider a modern transplant...but you don't. You keep pursuing an impractical idea THAT HAS BEEN MADE VERY CLEAR TO YOU....ESPECIALLY FOR YOUR SETUP.

While I indulged you because it's possible/probable I have/had similar goals to your current situation (and because I built/have an AFR-equipped 383 mega-hogged TPI that generates maximum torque below 4500 rpms), you make some RIDICULOUS statements. Snow float? Really? Worrying about mpg if you decel too often. WTF? WANTING an intake that starts to choke off an engine at 3k rpms? Do you even understand where the peak of a TPI occurs?

And, I could go on.

I'm not sure you'll EVER find someone that cut down a TPI intake to fit under a "tighter" hood. People choose practical. People tend to pick solutions that don't waste a lot of money. If you wanted MORE power with a stroker, why not ask about FI or NOS?

Iso-Butyl-WTF? It's listed as a replacement for Ethanol. Am I impressed that you're considering odd ways to combat the increase in carbon-footprint with more TORQUE? No. The ways you suggest are as ridiculous (impractical) as the thought for your intake. If you are so set on NOT polluting the environment, build an FI riceburner....or buy a Tesla....or transplant a modern engine in your Camaro.

You've got SO MANY little costly "solutions" that you don't even WANT TO ADMIT TO YOURSELF the draw on your wallet. You don't want to admit/consider bang-for-the-buck or practicality. You just want to "dream away" and fight with a forum who's told you (more than once) what to do.

You just won't listen. And...I predict you'll give up mad or banned.

If you're NOT a troll, I admire the goals behind the thought but question your budget and your ability to resolve the right/left side of your brain. I also question your ability to stop, slow-down, and relearn flaws in your thinking. You think you understand everything but you don't. After 14years in this forum, I'm often less confident of posting than I was 7-8 years ago. Before that I was too ignorant of motor-building concepts to understand the difference between good/bad questions. And, yes, I asked some dumb/unorthodox questions and did't let go.

I tried to apply math to build, components, etc... In many cases I was successful. In some cases, it led to enlightenment about what I didn't know or wouldn't consider. So far, I don't see you as that type of "dreamer". You sight options that you don't fully understand. I can tell by the ridiculousness of some of your statements.

And, the biggest HAS to be the comments about WANTING to choke off an engine for the ideals of your needs. In doing so, I don't see you talking about harmonics of reversion...or the REASON long/short tubes do what they do. Or why fat tires on snow is a good thing. Or why spending TONS of money to get a 15hp bump from 2000-3000 rpms is that worth it? Or why you can't get that power ANOTHER way?

Like I said, I own a TPI stroker. You are welcome to look at pictures in my "garage" and/or read through the TONS of questions I asked from 2007-2010 (when my motor was finished). Or...after that when discussing timing, cooling, tuning, or other related issues. I already said my torque/hp curve mirrors that of a 68 BBC. I bet you never looked at their curve to see if it's what you wanted. I know you ignore comments well-intended and avoid rethinking/researching/supporting what you write before you return to argue.

At least you don't lose your temper in the face of criticism/defeat. I'll give you that. At this point, I think your biggest limitation will be destroying the patience of those trying to direct you down a better path.

In an attempt to address 2-3 unanswered questions (of yours), here goes....

You linked a thread asking the question about how much a TPI intake will support. The general consensus is the 305 it was originally designed for. The general consensus is it was ALSO used on the 350 for cost reasons. And, that fuel economy was a consideration back then. It wasn't the intake itself that bumped economy. It was the advent of multiport injectors. Like you, I drank the candy of thinking I was "condensing" 6k rpms of powerband down into 5k rpms. The problem is that's too limiting when you consider races, speed, gearing, and the whole package of "power". That doesn't mean I don't appreciate what I built and the "leverage" of torque like you want, but it also doesn't mean I ignore other aspects of builds like gearing, maintenance (practicality), cost, etc...

Some of the reasons I chose a TPI don't apply to you. With what DOES apply, lacks enough support in terms of cost, practicality, etc... It's just not worth going custom for. If you can find/fit an intake originally designed for an LTx, knock yourself out. Try it. Just don't bark up a tree just to hear yourself bark.

And, most of all, stop coming back with dreamer statements/comments bolded to make us think you're on some special mission we're keeping you from.

If you're in the cycling Peleton, ask for directions, and are repeatedly told where to turn.....Don't act surprised when you veer off through the woods and are laughed at. Breaking the rules or going the wrong route isn't always the sign of a pioneer.

GREGGPENN

Oh yeah....I would never consider putting a box-stock TPI on in place of an LTx intake ON A STROKER. I don't have the software necessary to prove it, but I'd place a pretty high bet on the TPI choking MORE than the bump you get from the longtubes. IOW, you'd end up with less power almost everywhere. (OK, OK...maybe they'd be even from 2650-2700rpms with a tailwind. LOL)

If you decide to try a TPI on your engine, port the heck out of it, install/use large tubes, or use/modify a FFI setup. FIgure out how to get some air into it AND that you are going to use more fuel enjoying WHATEVER you build! (If you don't "enjoy it" that much, you WASTED your money building it!!!)

FWIW, There is software to model/analyze the performance of various intakes, engines, strokers, exhaust, combos, etc... Once you get skilled at using such software, you can fairly accurately predict results of builds.

Phoenix'97

Iso-Butanol, in general, Bio-Butanol, is a direct replacement for gasoline having nearly the same BTU burning power without the problems associated with ethanol such as the phase-separation and turning into a gunky substance that clogs injectors and screws up carburetors. Bio-Butanol does not draw in water moisture like ethanol, another problem and reason why ethanol literally waters down gasoline, which is why I currently only use pure-gasoline, no ethanol. The reason I am promoting this fuel is because I have no love for pure electric cars, they take away the sensation that only a internal combustion motor can give you. I could care less for their 0-60 instant power, it's too fast and too dangerous for daily driving and I don't even want to know what they are like to drive in the winter. When my RPM spikes, I know I am spinning my tires and I can clearly hear it and sense it. That is why I am holding on to my car. I will not transplant a new motor into my car, mainly because I don't fully trust electronic throttle which is becoming standard.


What more can I say? I let you know I am trying to keep my options open and I realize not getting a stroker motor means less power and more money to mess with just a camshaft upgrade to beef it up to mild stroker level performance. The problem is, no one has ever tried to put a long runner intake on an LT1, and no intake exists. This is where we will continue to butt heads. I can't throw on an LS intake unless I have heads made for the LT1 block that are reverse flow coolant capable and which are designed to use the LS intake. Why do LS guys get to have options and I can't? Okay, the L98 guys, you have the option to convert over to short runner set-ups, beefed up stealth rams, or even to swap intakes with the LT1 motor. What do I have? I am merely told that my stock intake is good enough but I want low end torque and I could give a damn about high RPM performance. We continue to butt heads over this.

Hey, it is my money and it is my dream. If I get word from some TPI owner that there is no way in hell that this intake can be compressed to bring it from 9 1/2 inches down to 7 1/2 inches where it will tightly fit in my engine bay, I will try to seek the help of a custom business willing to make me a non-sheet metal intake. I won't accept garbage. If not, fine, I am stuck with the LT1 intake. Why are you so offensive to my desire to have a TPI style intake on my motor?

aklim

I'm sure they can build you one that is close to what you want and most important, it will fit. IIRC, they built someone a Manifold that barely works and was a show piece. Not every intake is for racing only. Some are show intakes. Thing is that it will fit as opposed to the Frankenstein you are trying to make.