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Leaf spring question

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Old May 27, 2020 | 04:15 PM
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Default Leaf spring question

Do the c4 front and rear spring get week over time? Mine don't have that bounce to it. 94 model with 164,000 miles.
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Old May 27, 2020 | 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dc6902
Do the c4 front and rear spring get week over time? Mine don't have that bounce to it. 94 model with 164,000 miles.
I'm by no means an expert on leaf springs but short answer is yes they can go bad (one way or another). i can only assume "weak" is one of the issues. i know they can split/separate and sometimes break. luckily they aren't very expensive!

Last edited by mark970; May 27, 2020 at 05:07 PM.
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Old May 27, 2020 | 09:28 PM
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Thanks
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Old May 27, 2020 | 09:31 PM
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I know i wasn't much help here but i can only assume that yes they would fatigue.
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Old May 28, 2020 | 06:42 PM
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I worked for PPG Industries in the Fiber Glass Division at the FGRC Research Center in Harmerville, PA (late 70's to early 90's). I was a technician for chemists who were assigned the project of improving our continuous strand reinforcement for epoxy resins, specifically for the molders of the GM leaf spring. I made literally thousands of "mini" springs via the filament winding process. The fun part was testing these bad boys.
I mounted the springs on an computer controlled hydraulic testing machine (forget the brand name). We tested for progressive flexural cycle strength. That is, the equipment was set to flex the specimen for a set pound force resistance for a set number of cycles. If there was no failure, the pound force increased by the programmed input as well as the cycle times. This routine continued until failure.
Sorry for the confusion leading up to this: Production springs were equipped on taxi cabs in New York city in the winter time to monitor wear and tear under heavy use as well as calcium chloride (salted roads) erosion back in the mid 80's. Individual cabs had millions of flex cycles with absolutely no failure.
The cyclical testing is a measure of fatigue.

Now, as mentioned by others, if the epoxy resin of the springs is abraided, cut, or somehow missing and the continuous fiber glass strands are exposed to the elements, all bets are off.

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Old May 28, 2020 | 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by H Watkins
I worked for PPG Industries in the Fiber Glass Division at the FGRC Research Center in Harmerville, PA (late 70's to early 90's). I was a technician for chemists who were assigned the project of improving our continuous strand reinforcement for epoxy resins, specifically for the molders of the GM leaf spring. I made literally thousands of "mini" springs via the filament winding process. The fun part was testing these bad boys.
I mounted the springs on an computer controlled hydraulic testing machine (forget the brand name). We tested for progressive flexural cycle strength. That is, the equipment was set to flex the specimen for a set pound force resistance for a set number of cycles. If there was no failure, the pound force increased by the programmed input as well as the cycle times. This routine continued until failure.
Sorry for the confusion leading up to this: Production springs were equipped on taxi cabs in New York city in the winter time to monitor wear and tear under heavy use as well as calcium chloride (salted roads) erosion back in the mid 80's. Individual cabs had millions of flex cycles with absolutely no failure.
The cyclical testing is a measure of fatigue.

Now, as mentioned by others, if the epoxy resin of the springs is abraided, cut, or somehow missing and the continuous fiber glass strands are exposed to the elements, all bets are off.
Loved it...

nothing beats first-hand knowledge and insight that nobody would have ever known!!!
Thanks for sharing
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Old Jun 1, 2020 | 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by H Watkins
I worked for PPG Industries in the Fiber Glass Division at the FGRC Research Center in Harmerville, PA (late 70's to early 90's). I was a technician for chemists who were assigned the project of improving our continuous strand reinforcement for epoxy resins, specifically for the molders of the GM leaf spring. I made literally thousands of "mini" springs via the filament winding process. The fun part was testing these bad boys.
I mounted the springs on an computer controlled hydraulic testing machine (forget the brand name). We tested for progressive flexural cycle strength. That is, the equipment was set to flex the specimen for a set pound force resistance for a set number of cycles. If there was no failure, the pound force increased by the programmed input as well as the cycle times. This routine continued until failure.
Sorry for the confusion leading up to this: Production springs were equipped on taxi cabs in New York city in the winter time to monitor wear and tear under heavy use as well as calcium chloride (salted roads) erosion back in the mid 80's. Individual cabs had millions of flex cycles with absolutely no failure.
The cyclical testing is a measure of fatigue.

Now, as mentioned by others, if the epoxy resin of the springs is abraided, cut, or somehow missing and the continuous fiber glass strands are exposed to the elements, all bets are off.
I want to take a tangent here, and I hope you're willing to go there with me. Do you know how expensive one Corvette monoleaf is for GM to buy/make vs a pair of normal coil springs? I'm just curious about the relative costs of the monoleaf vs traditional coils.
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Old Jun 1, 2020 | 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by MatthewMiller
I want to take a tangent here, and I hope you're willing to go there with me. Do you know how expensive one Corvette monoleaf is for GM to buy/make vs a pair of normal coil springs? I'm just curious about the relative costs of the monoleaf vs traditional coils.
I have no idea about supplier costs these days. Even if I did, I would not divulge it.
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Old Jun 1, 2020 | 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by H Watkins
I worked for PPG Industries in the Fiber Glass Division at the FGRC Research Center in Harmerville, PA (late 70's to early 90's). I was a technician for chemists who were assigned the project of improving our continuous strand reinforcement for epoxy resins, specifically for the molders of the GM leaf spring. I made literally thousands of "mini" springs via the filament winding process. The fun part was testing these bad boys.
I mounted the springs on an computer controlled hydraulic testing machine (forget the brand name). We tested for progressive flexural cycle strength. That is, the equipment was set to flex the specimen for a set pound force resistance for a set number of cycles. If there was no failure, the pound force increased by the programmed input as well as the cycle times. This routine continued until failure.
Sorry for the confusion leading up to this: Production springs were equipped on taxi cabs in New York city in the winter time to monitor wear and tear under heavy use as well as calcium chloride (salted roads) erosion back in the mid 80's. Individual cabs had millions of flex cycles with absolutely no failure.
The cyclical testing is a measure of fatigue.

Now, as mentioned by others, if the epoxy resin of the springs is abraided, cut, or somehow missing and the continuous fiber glass strands are exposed to the elements, all bets are off.
Very cool. I remember reading one of the reasons for going to the fiber glass spring was that it essentially wouldn't fatigue over the designed life cycle of the car. (Forget if I saw it in one of the C4 brochures online or somethijg)

Dad had a 77 in the late 80s and the factory steel spring snapped in half on him one day. He had come to find out that was a common issue with the c3s and tried to buy a fiberglass one back then. He said it was cost prohibitive to his 20 something year old self when compared to a steel one.
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Old Jun 1, 2020 | 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by H Watkins
Production springs were equipped on taxi cabs in New York city in the winter time to monitor wear and tear under heavy use as well as calcium chloride (salted roads) erosion back in the mid 80's. Individual cabs had millions of flex cycles with absolutely no failure.
The cyclical testing is a measure of fatigue.

Now, as mentioned by others, if the epoxy resin of the springs is abraided, cut, or somehow missing and the continuous fiber glass strands are exposed to the elements, all bets are off.
That is great information.

On the other hand, all materials will cycle to failure, eventually...

The question is if eventually every comes into play during the life cycle of a component. No to be picky, but you said failure, not a decrease in spring rate. Can you clarify if the spring rate changed any?

Last edited by KyleF; Jun 1, 2020 at 11:01 AM.
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Old Jun 1, 2020 | 09:25 PM
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I had to replace the front spring on my 90, it started to sag, at that time you could still get front spring's from vbp, I think I had about 179,000 miles on it at that time.
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Old Jun 3, 2020 | 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by dc6902
Do the c4 front and rear spring get week over time? Mine don't have that bounce to it. '94 model with 164,000 miles.
Your public profile says you have an '84. Do you have two Corvettes? I'm confused.

What "bounce" are you looking for? How are you measuring the "bounce"? Corvettes, either '94, and especially the '84, are not known for their "bounce" They are built to minimize the "bounce". A weak spring would result in a sagging suspension, not a change in the "bounce", unless you have worn out shock absorbers.

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