Hello Corvette Forum!
Administrator
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 368,385
Likes: 24,790
From: In a parallel universe. Currently own 2014 Stingray Coupe.
C7 of the Year - Modified Finalist 2021
MO Events Coordinator
St. Jude Co-Organizer
St. Jude Donor '03 thru '26
NCM Sinkhole Donor
CI 5, 8 & 11 Veteran
Welcome, but moving this over to C4 General where other owners can offer comments on your recently acquired car.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 17,383
Likes: 6,527
From: Melbourne, FL
Welcome.
Gonna be honest, that sounds like a lot more than 2k in repairs. Post some pics, it sounds like it's an auto and the PO claims it's lt4 swapped? I'm suspicious of that, but it's possible I guess. I'd probably start by really assessing what everything is, and figure out what you wanna do with it. You talked about selling it, and honestly, if you fix it right to sell it, you're gonna get slaughtered. So unless it's something you'd want to keep, I'd consider only doing things you have to do to get your money back.
Side note, anyone paying 45k for a c5z is a baboon. The nicest c5z in the world shouldn't be over 30k, they're not that great of a car, and they made a butt load of them. Yeah, a lot got trashed or modded to hell, but in the 30s you can get a nice LS3 c6 that's like a c5z but better in every way, except being slightly heavier.
Gonna be honest, that sounds like a lot more than 2k in repairs. Post some pics, it sounds like it's an auto and the PO claims it's lt4 swapped? I'm suspicious of that, but it's possible I guess. I'd probably start by really assessing what everything is, and figure out what you wanna do with it. You talked about selling it, and honestly, if you fix it right to sell it, you're gonna get slaughtered. So unless it's something you'd want to keep, I'd consider only doing things you have to do to get your money back.
Side note, anyone paying 45k for a c5z is a baboon. The nicest c5z in the world shouldn't be over 30k, they're not that great of a car, and they made a butt load of them. Yeah, a lot got trashed or modded to hell, but in the 30s you can get a nice LS3 c6 that's like a c5z but better in every way, except being slightly heavier.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 17,383
Likes: 6,527
From: Melbourne, FL
I do not disagree with that one bit, but, the used market is. I was looking at (dreaming of) a near "concourse condition" example of the Le Mans a bit over a year ago and it was low 30's then. It is now mid-40s. ...and it is most certainly crazy. When I started looking back then, a nice 6spd C5 with about 50,000 miles was going for $15-17k locally, Z's were mid to high-20s. I saved 15k, decided to finance the rest, went looking, and I was surprised. Everything is up 30-50% regardless of what it is and how crap and undesirable it might be.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,384
Likes: 339
From: Simi Valley CA
The best way to find a coolant issue is to rent the pressure tester leak finder tool. Autozone in California has the free loaner tool where you buy the rental tool and return it for a full refund. They're expensive to buy out right, but do find coolant leaks. I had a Tahoe that I chased a coolant leak, replaced thermostat, WP, Radiator and still couldn't find the issue. Got the tool, ended up being the hose that goes to the overflow.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 521
Likes: 143
From: Caribbean/Florida
Bought a C4 (auto) last week that claims 134,000 miles on the chassis and 6,700 miles on a fresh LT4 long block. I believe it needs $2-4K invested to make "right". It runs great and drives mostly nice. I picked it up for $8k. Previous owner was a hack if I'm to be polite about it, so first thing on the list is to fix all the "fixes". First and foremost is addressing the cooling system and brakes as neither is performing to specification. Over time as I approach the issues, I'll be asking for help if needed, and sooner or later I know I will. Complete Y-Body newbie here.
I've owned F-Bodies almost all of my life; a '71 Pontiac Firebird Esprit, 1980 Camaro Z28, 1988 Camaro RS, 1989 Camaro IROC-Z, and currently, a 1993 Pontiac Trans Am. The '80 Z28 and the '93 Trans Am are by far my favorites. So far. Did I mention I just bought a C4? I've also owned a 1978 Lincoln Town Car Continental, a 1984 Lincoln Mark VII, 1984 Pontiac Grand Prix, 1988 Nissan Hardbody, and 1994 Ford Ranger. The Ranger got driven to 485,000 miles before I sold it off. ...great little truck.
I joined Firebird Nation in 2005 after owning my Trans Am a few years and have been very active in that community since.
The condition of my '96 Polo Green C4 isn't dire, it's price implied work needed done, so I wasn't expecting perfection and think I bought what I was expecting. The paint is in very good condition with only 2 minor dings, one of which was caused by the windshield wiper right at the edge of the hood. ...where I can see it. The engine feels strong, and the transmission appears to be doing what it should when it should. The previous owner claims the original engine wouldn't go a day without overheating and he did *everything* before throwing up his hands and buying an LT4 long block thinking it was an "evolution" of the LT1 that resolved (his words) "all the overheating problems these Corvettes are known for". ...and not only does it still overheat, it's on it's 3rd Accel OptiSpark since the new engine was installed.
He got frustrated with the OptiSpark problems and the overheating and decided to make it someone else's problem. Hello! He never thought to put the OEM OptiSpark back on because "it was old". Thankfully, he kept it, so I'll be buying a Cap and Rotor kit and reinstalling it before the Accel bites me. I might just order a new OptiSpark from Petris Enterprises. I budgeted for this when I decided to stick with the LT1. I should spend it while I got it, and while I can get it.
After owning an early 4th Gen T/A for 2 decades, I'm fairly intimate with LT1's at this point in my life and not scared by OptiSparks or overheating. I've banged my head against both at great expense to my sanity and emerged victorious in the end, learning quite a bit in the process.
I'm almost certain the steam/bleed/crossover pipe (whatever it's called on a Corvette) has a pin hole somewhere preventing the system from sealing. It operates within LT1 specs when cruising, but as soon as you stop, the temp climbs eventually hitting the caution zone. Pull away, and it cools down quickly. I have learned not to trust Temperature Gauges, but the engine is sluggish when pulling away in this condition, so it's probably really getting as hot as the gauge claims. I experienced this exact condition with my Trans Am for 5 years before I found a pin hole on the underside of the steam pipe. I'm gambling that is what is going on this C4.
...and I took a gamble with this C4.
The brakes are scary. The previous owner changed the booster, master cylinder, calipers and pads at the same time. ...himself. Now, the pedal goes half way to the floor before they grab, and when they grab, they grab with the force they would have if you progressed into a normal pedal that far. There is no pedal pressure during that travel, then there is a soft pedal for a bit with fair brakes, then a very hard pedal near the floor. I haven't "stomped" on them yet. The parking brake doesn't work, it's very stiff and barely moves. I'm hoping the parking brake and the excessive pedal travel is related and the soft pedal is just air still needing to be bled out. I read a few posts about soft pedals on these cars and seen a couple where folks had to tap on the calipers a bit to coax the last bit of air out. When I mentioned the brakes to the owner, he said "I thought I bought the wrong booster and the rods were too short.". We shall see.
The Interior isn't too bad. The diagonal seam in both seats is completely separated, and the door panels aren't sitting flush against the doors, but the dash/dash pad and all interior plastics are in very good condition. One trim panel in the hatch is cracked a little but not broken, and a rear speaker grille is missing the Bose plate. The LCD portion of the instrument cluster glitches out and is unreadable most of every second, but for a split second, you can read the speed and after a few seconds you can figure out the fuel level. I might try to repair this myself, I might get a refurbished one, or, I might go sideways and replace the whole thing with a 1993 F-Body cluster. I'm dumb like that. For now though, I'm just using the GPS speedometer on my smartphone as backup. I may get a wireless OBD2 scanner and use the app on a tablet as gauges for a while. I need a OBD2 scanner now anyway. The A/C blows ice cold, but the damper is stuck on floor/defroster. This is the least of my concerns. A/C went out in the Trans Am 18 years ago, so it's nice to have as-is. It's a quick simple fix anyway. The one thing that needs addressed almost immediately though is the weather stripping. Every last bit of it needs replaced. It's not very bad, but it's clearly not sealed in some places. It's protected when at home, but, this is Florida, and 'tis the Season.
Handling? I'm a little disappointed by the turning radius, its as wide as my Tundra, but I can get used to that. ...and I think the shocks are gone. I haven't inspected them, but it rides like my Trans AM which has 4 (confirmed) blown shocks. Very sloppy on bumpy roads. Easily corrected. The RPO label says it's got "Soft Ride Suspension" too, so I'm going to have to do something about that. It's not a pressing issue but there's 4 brand new UHP summer tires involved, I'd hate to chop them up.
It started to sprinkle on the way home from buying the car. My boy said "Wipers Dad!". I replied "I don't know how old the blades are. They might smear the windshield up and I won't be able to see at all. I can see just fine now. If it gets worse, I'll turn them on." As we were turning into our neighborhood, it started raining very hard. I said "Well, let's see how bad the wiper blades are." I turned on the wipers, and, nothing. Rotated through all the positions. ...nothing. Guessing I need a wiper motor or a fuse is blown. No biggie. The next morning, we're at a stop light and the wipers pop out of the hood, travel about 4" and stop. My boy says, "the wipers work now?" I said "I don't know about that", he asks why and just as I'm about to say "I never touched them, and they should have went back down all the way", they drop back into the hood and I say "Well, I never touched the switch for starters". He said, "Oh.". I reach for the stalk, rotate the wiper switch, nothing. I shut them off, then repeat. As we're pulling away from the light, they start working all by themselves again going through the full range of travel 5 or 6 times. ...then they drop back into the hood and then the smell of burning wires fills the cabin. We pulled over and shut the car off. I pop the hood and look around the firewall, know what I see? All the wires and the connector going into the wiper motor are melted. Two of the now bare wires are touching. I spread them apart, turned the car on, tried the wipers, and again, nothing. The first 1/4" of copper is oxidized, the next 1/2" is fresh copper, so this isn't a new problem. I'll figure out what caused it, but until I do, that's stuck in my head.
...and that's where I'm at until I can really give it a real good "once over". I've been busy since I bought it. I suspect there will be more to address, but not much more. I hope.
4 wheel independent suspension is a new one for me. It feels very strange cornering, but I absolutely love it. I'm also having fun with ASR. Seriously, it makes me and my 12 year old son laugh every time it kicks in, and it kicks in often. I'm a very spirited driver to say the least, and he's grown up in a car with 450RWHP that has a 3.36 first gear through a 3.23 rear-end, with zero electronic "nannies", so when the Corvette is telling us we're "in danger" and it "saved" us, well, yeah, we laugh because we're used to driving much, *much* harder in a "controlled" manner.
I guess that's good for now. Wish me luck!
I've owned F-Bodies almost all of my life; a '71 Pontiac Firebird Esprit, 1980 Camaro Z28, 1988 Camaro RS, 1989 Camaro IROC-Z, and currently, a 1993 Pontiac Trans Am. The '80 Z28 and the '93 Trans Am are by far my favorites. So far. Did I mention I just bought a C4? I've also owned a 1978 Lincoln Town Car Continental, a 1984 Lincoln Mark VII, 1984 Pontiac Grand Prix, 1988 Nissan Hardbody, and 1994 Ford Ranger. The Ranger got driven to 485,000 miles before I sold it off. ...great little truck.
I joined Firebird Nation in 2005 after owning my Trans Am a few years and have been very active in that community since.
The condition of my '96 Polo Green C4 isn't dire, it's price implied work needed done, so I wasn't expecting perfection and think I bought what I was expecting. The paint is in very good condition with only 2 minor dings, one of which was caused by the windshield wiper right at the edge of the hood. ...where I can see it. The engine feels strong, and the transmission appears to be doing what it should when it should. The previous owner claims the original engine wouldn't go a day without overheating and he did *everything* before throwing up his hands and buying an LT4 long block thinking it was an "evolution" of the LT1 that resolved (his words) "all the overheating problems these Corvettes are known for". ...and not only does it still overheat, it's on it's 3rd Accel OptiSpark since the new engine was installed.
He got frustrated with the OptiSpark problems and the overheating and decided to make it someone else's problem. Hello! He never thought to put the OEM OptiSpark back on because "it was old". Thankfully, he kept it, so I'll be buying a Cap and Rotor kit and reinstalling it before the Accel bites me. I might just order a new OptiSpark from Petris Enterprises. I budgeted for this when I decided to stick with the LT1. I should spend it while I got it, and while I can get it.
After owning an early 4th Gen T/A for 2 decades, I'm fairly intimate with LT1's at this point in my life and not scared by OptiSparks or overheating. I've banged my head against both at great expense to my sanity and emerged victorious in the end, learning quite a bit in the process.
I'm almost certain the steam/bleed/crossover pipe (whatever it's called on a Corvette) has a pin hole somewhere preventing the system from sealing. It operates within LT1 specs when cruising, but as soon as you stop, the temp climbs eventually hitting the caution zone. Pull away, and it cools down quickly. I have learned not to trust Temperature Gauges, but the engine is sluggish when pulling away in this condition, so it's probably really getting as hot as the gauge claims. I experienced this exact condition with my Trans Am for 5 years before I found a pin hole on the underside of the steam pipe. I'm gambling that is what is going on this C4.
...and I took a gamble with this C4.
The brakes are scary. The previous owner changed the booster, master cylinder, calipers and pads at the same time. ...himself. Now, the pedal goes half way to the floor before they grab, and when they grab, they grab with the force they would have if you progressed into a normal pedal that far. There is no pedal pressure during that travel, then there is a soft pedal for a bit with fair brakes, then a very hard pedal near the floor. I haven't "stomped" on them yet. The parking brake doesn't work, it's very stiff and barely moves. I'm hoping the parking brake and the excessive pedal travel is related and the soft pedal is just air still needing to be bled out. I read a few posts about soft pedals on these cars and seen a couple where folks had to tap on the calipers a bit to coax the last bit of air out. When I mentioned the brakes to the owner, he said "I thought I bought the wrong booster and the rods were too short.". We shall see.
The Interior isn't too bad. The diagonal seam in both seats is completely separated, and the door panels aren't sitting flush against the doors, but the dash/dash pad and all interior plastics are in very good condition. One trim panel in the hatch is cracked a little but not broken, and a rear speaker grille is missing the Bose plate. The LCD portion of the instrument cluster glitches out and is unreadable most of every second, but for a split second, you can read the speed and after a few seconds you can figure out the fuel level. I might try to repair this myself, I might get a refurbished one, or, I might go sideways and replace the whole thing with a 1993 F-Body cluster. I'm dumb like that. For now though, I'm just using the GPS speedometer on my smartphone as backup. I may get a wireless OBD2 scanner and use the app on a tablet as gauges for a while. I need a OBD2 scanner now anyway. The A/C blows ice cold, but the damper is stuck on floor/defroster. This is the least of my concerns. A/C went out in the Trans Am 18 years ago, so it's nice to have as-is. It's a quick simple fix anyway. The one thing that needs addressed almost immediately though is the weather stripping. Every last bit of it needs replaced. It's not very bad, but it's clearly not sealed in some places. It's protected when at home, but, this is Florida, and 'tis the Season.
Handling? I'm a little disappointed by the turning radius, its as wide as my Tundra, but I can get used to that. ...and I think the shocks are gone. I haven't inspected them, but it rides like my Trans AM which has 4 (confirmed) blown shocks. Very sloppy on bumpy roads. Easily corrected. The RPO label says it's got "Soft Ride Suspension" too, so I'm going to have to do something about that. It's not a pressing issue but there's 4 brand new UHP summer tires involved, I'd hate to chop them up.
It started to sprinkle on the way home from buying the car. My boy said "Wipers Dad!". I replied "I don't know how old the blades are. They might smear the windshield up and I won't be able to see at all. I can see just fine now. If it gets worse, I'll turn them on." As we were turning into our neighborhood, it started raining very hard. I said "Well, let's see how bad the wiper blades are." I turned on the wipers, and, nothing. Rotated through all the positions. ...nothing. Guessing I need a wiper motor or a fuse is blown. No biggie. The next morning, we're at a stop light and the wipers pop out of the hood, travel about 4" and stop. My boy says, "the wipers work now?" I said "I don't know about that", he asks why and just as I'm about to say "I never touched them, and they should have went back down all the way", they drop back into the hood and I say "Well, I never touched the switch for starters". He said, "Oh.". I reach for the stalk, rotate the wiper switch, nothing. I shut them off, then repeat. As we're pulling away from the light, they start working all by themselves again going through the full range of travel 5 or 6 times. ...then they drop back into the hood and then the smell of burning wires fills the cabin. We pulled over and shut the car off. I pop the hood and look around the firewall, know what I see? All the wires and the connector going into the wiper motor are melted. Two of the now bare wires are touching. I spread them apart, turned the car on, tried the wipers, and again, nothing. The first 1/4" of copper is oxidized, the next 1/2" is fresh copper, so this isn't a new problem. I'll figure out what caused it, but until I do, that's stuck in my head.
...and that's where I'm at until I can really give it a real good "once over". I've been busy since I bought it. I suspect there will be more to address, but not much more. I hope.
4 wheel independent suspension is a new one for me. It feels very strange cornering, but I absolutely love it. I'm also having fun with ASR. Seriously, it makes me and my 12 year old son laugh every time it kicks in, and it kicks in often. I'm a very spirited driver to say the least, and he's grown up in a car with 450RWHP that has a 3.36 first gear through a 3.23 rear-end, with zero electronic "nannies", so when the Corvette is telling us we're "in danger" and it "saved" us, well, yeah, we laugh because we're used to driving much, *much* harder in a "controlled" manner.
I guess that's good for now. Wish me luck!
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Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 4,648
Likes: 1,059
From: N.E. Ohio OH
Finalist 2020 C4 of the Year - Modified
Back to your original post and no one caught on much to the fact that you said the previous owner put an LT4 long block into a '96 LT1 car.
Do you have a picture of the engine you would care to share ? If this is true and there wasn't any pud pulling in the story, the intake should be red. You can look down into the oil filler hole on the valve cover and look for roller rockers and "LT4" will be cast into the head and be visible.
There will be no EGR and if this is really the case, the ECM should have been retuned to LT4 specs. An LT1 tune could probably adapt but there can be issues. There is also a difference in the knock sensor.
If the intake manifold is not red, and the heads are LT4, there will be a mismatch at the ports.
However, if this is for real, there is a lot of performance potential left lying there on the table. A LT4 oem tune could be overwritten on the ECM and the transmission parameters turned back on. GM did changes to the A4 parameters. There are differences that I can see when comparing a LT1 to LT4 file. In one of your other posts you had mentioned possible issues with the transmission. The LT4 A4 parameters probably shouldn't be run then.
Maybe GM was trying to see about releasing an A4 LT4 but found out that they were already on the edge of the 4L60E as changes were being made to the internals of it for usage behind the LS1 in '97.
As I said, if there was no pud pulling going on, there is a 30 to 50 HP increase available just by getting the ECM settings to match the engine. And no, the ECM can't just be a LT4 slappped in without tuning, the parameters for the A4 are turned off.
30 to 50 just by getting the tuning right would sure make my day.
The previous owner claims the original engine wouldn't go a day without overheating and he did *everything* before throwing up his hands and buying an LT4 long block thinking it was an "evolution" of the LT1 that resolved (his words) "all the overheating problems these Corvettes are known for". ...and not only does it still overheat, it's on it's 3rd Accel OptiSpark since the new engine was installed.
There will be no EGR and if this is really the case, the ECM should have been retuned to LT4 specs. An LT1 tune could probably adapt but there can be issues. There is also a difference in the knock sensor.
If the intake manifold is not red, and the heads are LT4, there will be a mismatch at the ports.
However, if this is for real, there is a lot of performance potential left lying there on the table. A LT4 oem tune could be overwritten on the ECM and the transmission parameters turned back on. GM did changes to the A4 parameters. There are differences that I can see when comparing a LT1 to LT4 file. In one of your other posts you had mentioned possible issues with the transmission. The LT4 A4 parameters probably shouldn't be run then.
Maybe GM was trying to see about releasing an A4 LT4 but found out that they were already on the edge of the 4L60E as changes were being made to the internals of it for usage behind the LS1 in '97.
As I said, if there was no pud pulling going on, there is a 30 to 50 HP increase available just by getting the ECM settings to match the engine. And no, the ECM can't just be a LT4 slappped in without tuning, the parameters for the A4 are turned off.
30 to 50 just by getting the tuning right would sure make my day.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
There is a function where you can see the real temp readout on the dash perhaps someone will post it.
First thing id do if I had an LTx vette is to put a cooler stat and program the fans to come on waaay earlier. No good reason for them to run that warm.
Ive passed Ca smog with much lower temps than these cars were supposed to run at.
First thing id do if I had an LTx vette is to put a cooler stat and program the fans to come on waaay earlier. No good reason for them to run that warm.
Ive passed Ca smog with much lower temps than these cars were supposed to run at.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 4,648
Likes: 1,059
From: N.E. Ohio OH
Finalist 2020 C4 of the Year - Modified
I wasn't insinuating you telling a story, but more a story was told to you. And now you confirm it.
My son got burned on a flood car to. A local Cadillac dealer did it. In Ohio, there are no used car lemon laws. They sold him the car and an aftermarket warranty. Within the first month, the warranty company put more money into the car than what he paid. They put a new trans, a new engine, lots of new stuff. When he tore stuff apart, he found sand in places it shouldn't be.
They even faked a Carfax. The owner is tied to local politicians and is located on the edge of ghetto country and is used to cheating the low income folks.
Unfortunately if you took the car anywhere to be worked on, it will show up on Carfax (maybe).
Also unfortunately, if it was in a flood and water got into the frame (because it is not continuous seam welded) the frame could be rotting out. Might be time to have a catastrophic fire.
With everything wrong with it, it sounds like you have 4 choices. Somehow get it totaled out and get what you can from insurance, part it out and scrap the rest, scam someone else like you were scammed or disclose what is wrong and take your losses.
I have a '96 and it is a pleasure to drive. Oh btw, the HVAC issue that car has is a common, 1 year only problem. It is fixable. It is the least issue you have. My car has that issue also. I will fix it when I put the analog dash in.
That transmission sounds like it is toast.
My son got burned on a flood car to. A local Cadillac dealer did it. In Ohio, there are no used car lemon laws. They sold him the car and an aftermarket warranty. Within the first month, the warranty company put more money into the car than what he paid. They put a new trans, a new engine, lots of new stuff. When he tore stuff apart, he found sand in places it shouldn't be.
They even faked a Carfax. The owner is tied to local politicians and is located on the edge of ghetto country and is used to cheating the low income folks.
Unfortunately if you took the car anywhere to be worked on, it will show up on Carfax (maybe).
Also unfortunately, if it was in a flood and water got into the frame (because it is not continuous seam welded) the frame could be rotting out. Might be time to have a catastrophic fire.
With everything wrong with it, it sounds like you have 4 choices. Somehow get it totaled out and get what you can from insurance, part it out and scrap the rest, scam someone else like you were scammed or disclose what is wrong and take your losses.
I have a '96 and it is a pleasure to drive. Oh btw, the HVAC issue that car has is a common, 1 year only problem. It is fixable. It is the least issue you have. My car has that issue also. I will fix it when I put the analog dash in.
That transmission sounds like it is toast.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 4,648
Likes: 1,059
From: N.E. Ohio OH
Finalist 2020 C4 of the Year - Modified
I have the 3.07 rear gear in mine, also an A4. You should be getting more than 20+ mpg's easily running 93 octane (that is what I run). I get more than 20 easily. I was comparing your description of how the transmission shifts against mine. My car has 28,000 on it. Had 12,000 on it in 2016 when I bought it. Wasn't abused, it was an old lady's car (truthfully, I have her paperwork).
You need to inspect the frame. If it is good, everything else is fixable, if you want. There are things you can do with the transmission/rear-end to make it more fun.
You need to inspect the frame. If it is good, everything else is fixable, if you want. There are things you can do with the transmission/rear-end to make it more fun.