I hate to say this... your as open minded as the moron who caused this thread (not the poster!).

I have never seen a stock L98 pull numbers you are quoting.

At the time, the ZR1 was, what? $65,000.00??? The Supra was 20k less.

I am not defending the supra, per sa, what I am doing is trying to inform.

Kevin is right... a few mods, 5 more lbs of boost and your really running. The turbo supras are find automobiles. with tons of potential.

Lets not even try to define "sports car". that line has been so blurred, it ain't even funny.

And if we are talking about pork, the RX7 only weighed 2800 lbs.... every other car in that class, 300ZX TT, Supra, Vette, 3000GT VR4... all were over 3300lbs. and most were over 3500lbs!!!!!!

I guess what I am saying, don't throw stones in a glass house...

 

[Modified by yoslambo1@cs.com, 9:45 PM 2/11/2003]

 

:iagree: :jester

 

Last summer I pulled up next to a guy in a modified 95 Supra. We pulled away from the stop light, and about half way through first gear he jumped on it. Of course I was anticipating that and was ready to jump on the Vette. We ran side by side through first, and I had to let off for a second when my rear started to dance when I hit 2nd (auto). We stayed in it through 2nd and were still pretty even. We pulled over and talked for a while and he was a pretty cool younger kid.

Later that same night we met up again with a group of people hanging out (mostly ricers) and the smack talking started. Apperantly, he was highly regarded amongst his ricer buddies as having the fastest car of the group. Anyway, I learned that he had bigger injectors, I think 14 lbs. boost, and an after market intake and exhaust. Of course it eventually came down to putting the rubber on the road with all his buddies prompting him to spank the Vette.

We went out on an empty strech of freeway, and went from a slow roll. I immediatly jumped out about 2 cars on him, and stayed there through 2nd. As I hit third I started to pull away, and continued to pull slowly away until 155 (top down by the way) where I was out on him by at least 10 cars. We slowed down, took an exit, and let everyone else catch up to talk about it. Of course he began to tell everyone how he was starting to reel me in when we let off (not). I let him tell that story a couple times and then called BS. He insisted he was pulling on me when I let off, so I said well, there's only one way to know for sure!

This time I took a guy who was begging to ride with me. I told him I don't race with a passenger, but he was insistant so I gave in. By the way, he was 240lbs. The supra guy had his girl friend who was probably 110 lbs. We ran from about 50 mph this time, and again I jumped out ahead. We were running up a long incline probably about 5% grade. I ran up to 155 again, which was about all she had with the heavy passenger, the steep grade, and the poor aierodynamics of the top down, but the Supra was still a good 15 cars behind and falling back. This time he had to conceed that he could not catch me.

These cars are capable of being very fast, but it comes down to apples and oranges! However, roll into a parking lot full of ricers at a slow idle with the nasty cam lopeing through a set of Borlas and watch the fear come over their faces! ;)

 

GOOD KILL!!! :cheers: :thumbs:

 

I respect the modded Supra. I raced one in my Callaway from a 50mph roll, neither one of us could get traction and the first one to hook up pulled. Once I pulled him pretty hard, he claimed he missed a shift. We went again from about 60-70mph(with minimal wheel spin :D ) and then he pulled me a bit....then I found out he'd dynoed 525rwhp on race gas. He was running pump at that time. I held my own pretty well. Keep in mind my car is over boosting so I can't go full throttle in 3rd or 4th gear.

However I feel that the typical TT Supra is probably a hair quicker than an LT1 but slower than an LT4. A BPU Supra is definitely a force to be reckoned with.

Either way win or lose, I still love America's sports car. :cheers:


[Modified by SurfnSun, 10:34 PM 2/11/2003]

 

Bogus, my 90 L98 pulled low 14s and even a high 13 at 99 and 100 mph... stock except for KN filter, no cut lid.

Supras do not do well at autox. As a matter of fact they will get their butt handed to them by an L98 sixspeed, modded or not.

 

He's right the Supras are definately not a Vette, and as soon as he gets a little wiser he'll realize that's not a good thing. :cheers:

 

First I said 'C5', and 2nd the ZR-1 cost $25K more than a Supra, I ws comparing the similarly priced car (aka Lt1) IMO KBB is a garbage book value, for both cars those numbers seem low.

Their are Supra 1/4 mile times of 13.1 and their is a magazine who drove a ZR1 to 13.6, but those are magazine times, some people can't drive & some manufacturers send strong cars to the press. BTW 104.5mph traps spped is usually a mid 13 sec time slip for a Supra. A supra run mid 13's stock, A ZR-1 run high 12's/low 13's in capable drivers hands. With $1000 in mods (downpipe, exhuast, boost controller and a ecu hack), a Supra will run a traction limited mid 12's @ 115+mph, any idiot can make this type of hp with these parts and a car that runs properly (maybe not the et's). Top speed is ECU limited but it probably could do 170 or so.

Maybe the japaneese were smart about producing a womans car, as approx half the population is women. They sure have taken a big cut from GM's market share

 

Bogus, good name.
The numbers are from a Supra web-site.
Comparing a top of the line Supra to a bottom of the line Corvette is biased.
The Turbo Supra was the top of the line. The ZR-1 was the top of the line for Corvette.
Tunning:
A built Corvette is very fast. Dollar for dollar the Supra couldn't hack it.
The Fast and Furious was just a movie.
Corvettes have been fast for over 45 years. 45 years ago there wasn't any Toyotas in the US.
There is no need to be insulting unless thats your back up.
Numbers don't lie. The Supra was a very exspensive failed attempt by Toyota to build a performance car.
As far as KBB being right or wrong it all depends if the numbers validate your pov.

In the opinion of those who subscribe to the idea that Japanese cars are better the Supra is one hella car. Bottom line is it didn't sell.
And if your in the car game a car that isn't wanted is red ink. How good is a car really if no-one wants it?

All of the Japanese car manufactures have failed to build a high performance
that sells. Thats a fact.
The Japanese invented the womans car. A factor in the failure of the Supra Twin Turbo was reliabilty/drive ability. The primary turbo was prone to failure.
Tunning the car was difficult for the average Toyota shop.

In short it wasn't a good car, none of them were.

:flag

 

$25K base price is a big difference. Even using you logic with this advantage, the Supra has an edge over the ZR-1 when spend equal $ modifying each car.

:confused: You obviously know nothing about Supra's. Dollar for Dollar of modifications, the Supra will pretty much out do any car. Thats why they are so popular and expensive resale wise.

Their were as many ZR-1's as Supra TT, does that make it a failure? It was a sales failure, but for enthusiasts, we were lucky to have the car produced. the same can be said for the Supra.

Same can be said about the chevrolet dealerships. As for not being a good car, thats obviously your opinion or are you basing that on sales...you do realize their are other sports cars out their beside the corvette.

 

Change the swap a few words (such as domestic with import) and it remind me of someone here. It goes both ways....

 

OK I've never driven a Supra, but I'm sure they're great cars. However I'm sick of hearing BPU++!-%* cars that can smoke any car on the planet for $1000 or whatever. Look at a TT Lingenfelter, you're running 8s with a street legal car and full interior and I believe A/C, etc, and that's without 1,200hp, I think it has around 700, too lazy to research it, let's see the imports touch that. As for $$/hp, sure Supras are fast for cheap, but so are Mustangs, Camaros, Grand Nationals, etc.

 

wasn't the real hot ticket the Mazda RX7 Twin Turbo? As I recall they were the fastest and the quickest of the twin turbos, (Supra, 300ZX and 3000GT).

I drove one a long time ago and it was brutally fast but very small in the cockpit and less room for storage than my vert.

 

Bring it on son I don't give a dam if your riccer has 18 lbs, of boost just bring it on. :smash:

 

its my last name. don't wear it out. :mad

ok.

uh, not really. its like comparing the top of the line corvette to the top of the line Ferrari. thats not apples to apples.

it is always better to compare price range to price range. just because something is a better or worse value, so be it. if you cannot deal with the supra TT being a fair competitor to the Vette, oh well.

ok, and what planet do you live on? it sure ain't mine. explain why there are 9 second door slammer Supras?

I hate to tell you this - there were. not many, but toyota came here in 1957. honestly, they were slow and poorly built, but they were here.

besides, there were not any Ferraris or Porsches here to speak of then, either.

I don't make a pratice of insulting people. unless utterly necessary and blatently obvious.

They may not lie, but they sure has hell can be tortured.

uh, no. not really. just because it did'nt sell well here in the states does not make it a failure. it sold quite well overseas. the supra hit a dying market, just like the 300TT, RX7 and 3000 GT VR4. Its why Porsche is now making an SUV.

I find KBB dubious at best. There seems to be a problem with their online mileage calcs...

read my comment about the dying market.

they have? never heard of the 240, 260, 280 and 300Z's? There is quite the following. Or the orginal RX7s? could include the miata, but that is not hi-po, but still a fantastic handler. eats anything on an autox track.

just because a car is reliable makes it a 'womans car'? that is somewhat sexist.

which was caused by the overcomplex vacuum control system. the solution was simple. single turno.

and your average chevy shop will build a good modern SBC? and make is realiable and emissions legal? its difficult for anyone these days.

I just don't agree with that blanket statement. I cannot. they were refined cars. fast, stable and predictable. just because they don't have pushrod V8s makes them bad? that was my point before.

sure, the RX7 may have been fragile... but the others are not that bad.

and an aside, the average L98 was good for 0-60 in about 6.0 or so. a little less, but no 5.1, thats reserved for an LT4.

I am not saying the ZR1 is inferior... just different.

and the supra is a car that has my respect. totally. and completely.

If one pulled up next to me, I would be cautious. very cautious.

these are fast cars. the basics are bullet proof... so, the turbos are complex.

you forget, the corvette is not all wine and roses, either. there are issues with the optispark, chassis flex, overall build quality, electrical gremlins.

 

Ok this guy seems to be an ignorant :rolleyes:
With $1000 in mods (downpipe, exhuast, boost controller and a ecu hack), a Supra will run a traction limited mid 12's @ 115+mph, any idiot can make this type of hp with these parts and a car that runs properly
Only idiots like you could buy all those parts for that kind of money..... Downpipe and exhaust alone would cost more than $1000...... boost controler??? Isnt the computer controling that??? :rolleyes: ECU hackyes you cn do one for less than $1000.

Their are Supra 1/4 mile times of 13.1 and their is a magazine who drove a ZR1 to 13.6, but those are magazine times, some people can't drive & some manufacturers send strong cars to the press
A tip..........magazines are biased. They have to say that the car from the make that paid'em is better or they're out of business. Ever seen Sportcompact magazine talk good about the Vette??? Have you ever heard 5.0 Mag talk good about 350's...

Maybe the japaneese were smart about producing a womans car, as approx half the population is women.
Actually more than half of the population is women! Check a pop clock. Its 51% - 49% that means 61 million women more than men, its quite a difference!

They sure have taken a big cut from GM's market share
I guess you dont know about the US foreign policy and and the Japanese Ministry of International trade and Industry? Well I'm not about to tell you, go researsh on it....BTW Look for MITI...........on the other hand you're probably not gonna do it and other members should know.
MITI promotes Japanese companies and helps them (capital and advice) to succeed internationaly.....more over it creates certain barriers to outside companies (GM, Ford, GE, etc...) its sort off a monopoly to help the "Japan Inc" progress, and the U.S. still has some post WWII policies that are helping the Japanese econ more than ours.
There's your answer why Japanese companies have taken some of US companies market share. Because we are helping them and they are taking advantage of it!

Anyways Supra is a nice car, I wouldn't mind having one along with the vette, but it sure isn't any thing from the other world.

A Supra has a good potential but I costs more to explore those potentials than a vette. Remember Cam and heads on a vette can make 400+rwhp for ~$3000 and to get the same on a supra you'll have to invest somewhere in the region of $10000.

Later :cheers:

Semper Fi :flag


[Modified by Darkness, 11:09 PM 2/12/2003]

 

Some will spend more money for a nicer exhuast and more exotic boost controller and as long as you not buuying Titanium or carbon fiber exhuast its pretty hard to spend much more than $1500 for the parts needed.

Down pipe is $300, a custom bent exhaust can had for $300 (prebent catback exhaust start at $450), Boost controllers can be down for under $25 (store bought controllers start at $99 for manual, $300 for electronic). The ECM cuts fuel when it senses more than factory boost. You need one of the HKS FCD or Gredy BCC which cost around $105-125 or you can make one next to nothing. You depending on how you mix and maych the parts, it could be done for as little as $625 or $1150. The cheap homemade parts will affect midrange power and were rumored to affect reliabilty. (I don't follow Supra anymore as I don't expect to own one anytime soon, so the thought on the cheap mods may have changed)

I agree, my point was meant to be that I don't trust magazine 1/4 mile tests...


[Modified by dgoodhue, 10:11 AM 2/13/2003]

 

dgoodhue - got it right...you run 12's in a supra on the cheap if you want to...even easier if your supra is an Automatic...downpipe: $250, full exhaust (new) $600, K&N $50, pull the wastegate hoses/cap them (cheap way ;) ) $0, BCC (doesn't let the ecu pull fuel at 11psi) $100 - I believe that's as cheap as you can go...most people do a bit more though. and NO - the ecu doesn't *really* controll boost - -

-since we have basically no torque down low, the 6spd's are a bi*ch to get outta the hole.

I've built big HP supras for 5years...and I live them...but I ready to try a C5 or Viper now....there's a nice 422" Blown 01 vert in the forsale sections....sweet.

 

Well, but in a car like that who's gonna use "custom" made and cheap stuff, the car alredy costs alot might as well spend some more. Its the same with vettes. There are people that fix radiator hoses with duct tape :rolleyes: but would you do it on a vette?
Well I have a friend that has a Subaru WRX and the up-pipe and down-pipe costed more than $1000 plus $600 for the cat-back, these things really had up when you start to build them. Yes they can be made very fast but its alot of parts to change, and on a vette is just headers, exhaust, cam and heads and there you go 400+rwhp (injectors might be needed in this situation)

"Low end torque is better than the smell of napalm in the morning "

Semper Fi :flag