watch out for this scam....
Threadkiller
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,306
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, NY
Cruise-In 9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09
Re: watch out for this scam.... (1995LT1)
<Mr Mojo>This is C4 related how?</Mr Mojo>
This concerns all cars, not just C4's.
[Modified by vizkiz, 4:23 PM 8/1/2003]
This concerns all cars, not just C4's.
[Modified by vizkiz, 4:23 PM 8/1/2003]
Racer
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 421
Likes: 0
From: Simi Valley CA
Re: watch out for this scam.... (chrply)
When I had 10 or so 'possible' cars in mind, Carfax was well worth the $20, to weed out the ex-rental cars, fleet cars, salvage, and rolled back. Looking at the milage one of the cars I was looking at with low miles had been in storage or doing few miles for 5 years, then a whopping 40K miles put on in the last year - skipped that one.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,324
Likes: 0
From: sussex nj
Re: watch out for this scam.... (1995LT1)
I certainly wouldn't call it a scam. When buying a used car you should use all the tools you have available to make the right decision, and carfax is just one tool.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,847
Likes: 1
From: Iowa
Cruise-In IV Veteran
Cruise-In V Veteran
Re: watch out for this scam.... (Lone Ranger)
Quote:
"An acquaintance bought a '96 over eBay without running CARFAX. I ran one for him after he got it home and CARFAX caught an odometer rollback. About 25,000 miles were rolled back. He was pissed."
Not that I would consider it, but just how would someone do a speedo rollback on a car with a digital odometer like is on a '96? Analogue, yes...but a digital?
"An acquaintance bought a '96 over eBay without running CARFAX. I ran one for him after he got it home and CARFAX caught an odometer rollback. About 25,000 miles were rolled back. He was pissed."
Not that I would consider it, but just how would someone do a speedo rollback on a car with a digital odometer like is on a '96? Analogue, yes...but a digital?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 6,341
Likes: 1
From: Shelton CT
watch out for this scam....
Unfortunately Crafax is the only one that is 'semi' accurate that I know of.
I have done a few carfax searches in the past few years and it has been wrong EVERY time.. Missing owners, less claimed owners than cars had, no accident reports although even Insurance company paid out to repair over 3K in damages, etc.. etc.. It does maintain service records that get set in to DMV, but that's about it.. I personally like to see it on a car I woudl be interested in buying, but I wouldn't be tmy life on it.. :lol:
I have done a few carfax searches in the past few years and it has been wrong EVERY time.. Missing owners, less claimed owners than cars had, no accident reports although even Insurance company paid out to repair over 3K in damages, etc.. etc.. It does maintain service records that get set in to DMV, but that's about it.. I personally like to see it on a car I woudl be interested in buying, but I wouldn't be tmy life on it.. :lol:
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 972
Likes: 0
From: Springdale AR
Re: watch out for this scam.... (chrply)
A scam is when someone is knowingly trying to rip you off. Carfax is only reporting what is reported to them, its not there fault that all the info does not get reported.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,496
Likes: 1
From: alaska
Re: watch out for this scam.... (chrply)
i did the preliminary at carfax site-said it had 5 items for my vin.
i was kinda 50/50 on wether to look or not.after all,ive already bought it and im happy with it.
the fee was the clincher,i just x'ed out of there.
i will run one on any future vehicles im looking at buying though.and i will take the info for whats it worth.
that is-if its clean it simply means they dont have any informatiion for it.
not that the vehicle is perfect.
and it just may be one of the vehicles that had good service records at places that carfax could could access.
not a scam,just one of the many tools to use when deciding. imo
i think carfax should support corvetteforum members with 1 free carfax a month,dont you? :D
:cheers:
i was kinda 50/50 on wether to look or not.after all,ive already bought it and im happy with it.
the fee was the clincher,i just x'ed out of there.
i will run one on any future vehicles im looking at buying though.and i will take the info for whats it worth.
that is-if its clean it simply means they dont have any informatiion for it.
not that the vehicle is perfect.
and it just may be one of the vehicles that had good service records at places that carfax could could access.
not a scam,just one of the many tools to use when deciding. imo
i think carfax should support corvetteforum members with 1 free carfax a month,dont you? :D
:cheers:
Pro
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 698
Likes: 0
From: Richmond VA
Re: watch out for this scam.... (MagikDraggin)
Not that I would consider it, but just how would someone do a speedo rollback on a car with a digital odometer like is on a '96? Analogue, yes...but a digital?
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,496
Likes: 1
From: alaska
Re: watch out for this scam.... (Bodhi)
"It is easier on a digital than an analog. The dash display is just a dummy display screen....the actual mileage is stored in the ECM. If you installed an ECM from a lower mileage Vette it will display the lower mileage. "
never thought of that. probly why my car only had 31k on it when i bought it.
:banghead:
what if your ecm goes bad? can you have it adjusted to read the correct mileage on install?
never thought of that. probly why my car only had 31k on it when i bought it.
:banghead:
what if your ecm goes bad? can you have it adjusted to read the correct mileage on install?
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,847
Likes: 1
From: Iowa
Cruise-In IV Veteran
Cruise-In V Veteran
Re: watch out for this scam.... (Bodhi)
Quote:
"It is easier on a digital than an analog. The dash display is just a dummy display screen....the actual mileage is stored in the ECM. If you installed an ECM from a lower mileage Vette it will display the lower mileage."
________________________________________ _________________
But that would be "detectable" then wouldn't it, as the VIN numbers would no longer match...right? Or is that number simply a part of the "programming" and is not imbedded in the ECM itself?
I gather it is virtually impossible to alter the mileage on an unmolested Corvette with digital readout without resorting to something like swapping out the ECM.
"It is easier on a digital than an analog. The dash display is just a dummy display screen....the actual mileage is stored in the ECM. If you installed an ECM from a lower mileage Vette it will display the lower mileage."
________________________________________ _________________
But that would be "detectable" then wouldn't it, as the VIN numbers would no longer match...right? Or is that number simply a part of the "programming" and is not imbedded in the ECM itself?
I gather it is virtually impossible to alter the mileage on an unmolested Corvette with digital readout without resorting to something like swapping out the ECM.
Pro
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 698
Likes: 0
From: Richmond VA
Re: watch out for this scam.... (mitymek)
never thought of that. probly why my car only had 31k on it when i bought it.
:banghead:
what if your ecm goes bad? can you have it adjusted to read the correct mileage on install?
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,496
Likes: 1
From: alaska
Re: watch out for this scam.... (chrply)
apparently the ecm (or pcm 92-up) is programmable.
its a computer.computers can be hacked.the technology might be easier for some to falsify the data or it may be tougher than the old ones that could be tampered with.i dont know.
just like everything else out there its buyer beware. when you compare a 30k mile car to a 130k mile car the differences are pretty obvious.
but from 30-50k,be pretty tough to tell from the vehicle.have to do your detective work on the story of the seller,the carfax info,any records found at dmv,gut feeling.....
if you take care of your vehicles they way most of us here do you dont need to cheat and roll back miles to get a good resell figure out of the thing.
an experienced buyer only uses the milage figure as one of many many factors.
and at the slightest hint of something not right with an odo you likely lost the sale.
be honest,buy honest, sleep well at night :cheers:
its a computer.computers can be hacked.the technology might be easier for some to falsify the data or it may be tougher than the old ones that could be tampered with.i dont know.
just like everything else out there its buyer beware. when you compare a 30k mile car to a 130k mile car the differences are pretty obvious.
but from 30-50k,be pretty tough to tell from the vehicle.have to do your detective work on the story of the seller,the carfax info,any records found at dmv,gut feeling.....
if you take care of your vehicles they way most of us here do you dont need to cheat and roll back miles to get a good resell figure out of the thing.
an experienced buyer only uses the milage figure as one of many many factors.
and at the slightest hint of something not right with an odo you likely lost the sale.
be honest,buy honest, sleep well at night :cheers:
Intermediate
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: IL
Re: watch out for this scam.... (chrply)
Well, it's pretty much obvious that it can't tell you everything about a car like the things you listed. So, i don't think that that makes it a scam. It has helped me out before. It provides the info it says it provides. It just helped out a friend that was going to look at a van that the private seller lied about the milage on. It was a very clean vehicle that they said had 47k miles. It actually had rolled over to 147k.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,198
Likes: 2
From: Northern CA
Re: watch out for this scam.... (mitymek)
On my '96, the odometer info is stored in an EEPROM within the CCM, not the PCM. According to the service manual, a dealer can program the mileage into the car as long as the new CCM has not been driven for over 100 miles.
As for carfax... if you want a real scam, open up the Ecklers or MAD catalog sometime. :lol:
As for carfax... if you want a real scam, open up the Ecklers or MAD catalog sometime. :lol:
Pro
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 509
Likes: 5
From: Edmonds WA
Re: watch out for this scam.... (vette92_1)
A scam is when someone is knowingly trying to rip you off. Carfax is only reporting what is reported to them, its not there fault that all the info does not get reported.
It's true that it can help you figure some things out, like people have said... rollbacks and such, and it's supposed to show flood and major damage and all, but as others have pointed out... it isn't even reliable for that.
It just didn't seem to have that much value to me, but I was looking at a truck that was only 3 years old. If I was looking for something that was 10 years, or older, I might be more inclined to get a Carfax just in case it turned up something... and consider it pretty inexpensive insurance.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
Likes: 25
From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
Re: watch out for this scam.... (Ron84Vette)
Watch out for this scam....my local McDonalds is giving 6 less frys per super size than the one 3 miles down the road! Look out!
If I ran the barcode on Carfax, would they detect a french-fry rollback?
Come on guys, Carfax is a tool! If you think it's a scam, then you're a tool!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,117
Likes: 0
From: 7th Floor Crew
Re: watch out for this scam.... (CentralCoaster)
It's not a scam if you know what you're buying. If you're looking for a 100% guarantee in anything you buy used, you're going to be looking a long time. :seeya
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: Liberty New York
Re: watch out for this scam.... (chrply)
OK, now that this topic has ran its course and everyone gave their thoughts i'll tell you why i brought it up. car dealers have a deal with carfax people. they pay X amount of $$$ and they get unlimited access to carfax...a case went to court involving an accident where the airbag was missing....a person was killed...the airbag was deployed in an earlier accident and not replaced (insurance fraud) the car dealer used carfax as their defence and an investigation started....to make a long story shorter..the judge ruled that carfax not be held responsible or as a defence because they are not reconized as a reliable sourse of information and people should be aware of this and not use carfax as a reliable source of information....but you guys that use carfax? don't use it to determind on buying a car....